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  1. #1
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Numbering of weapons

    I would like some help on identifying the breakdown of the rifle numbers attributed to SLR's and other weapons which were distributed around UKicon/Canadaicon and Australiaicon.

    I have always been of the belief that say for example: UB60A89811 given to an SLR rifle was broken down in the following method:
    UB manufacturer locator, 60 the year of manufacture and the A89811 as the actual rifle number.
    Am I correct or have I been dreaming for years.

    To complicate things even further in my studies I found a number of SLR rifles with only these numbers stamped on them which puts my theory to cock: A93166 nothing before it, and A154067 again nothing before that either just their basic numbers.
    This one threw me completely: 3354 yes an actual stamped MOD press rifle.

    Anybody out there with any better definition of how the numbering was made.

    A further example attributed to L81A1 rifles which have ALL been stamped in the format I thought was to cover year of manufacture and serial number of the rifle ie: UP83A4064.
    SA80's the same: UE88A064683.
    So I am sure someone out there knows the real reasons, it cannot be adhoc or our Colonial brothers could have a rifle duplicated elsewhere.
    Is this a Canadian thing perhaps or from a manufacturer in Australia where the start letters and numbers have been dropped??
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Legacy Member Aussie48's Avatar
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    Hi Gil,

    Lithgows were always numbered AD6501876 AD Lithgowicon first 2 numbers being year of manufacture

    Dick

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Hi Gil, as has been said the Lithgowicon L1A1sare all numbered in an orderly way, with all contract info (numbers,years,countries) avalable.

    All Lithgow's start with AD and year. So far so good.

    Britishicon production follows the same approach, but with some odd ball numbers thrown in. I think (if I remember rightly, might be wrong) the A****** serial rifles came about due to rifles being renumbered after limited and short term issue to the police, apparently some came back with indistinct master numbers, worn away I would guess and these were renumbered. I can't for the life of me remember who told me this now, could be completely wrong, Peter, Mike ??
    Last edited by mrclark303; 09-04-2015 at 07:20 PM.

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    Legacy Member Eaglelord17's Avatar
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    In terms of the C7 in Canadaicon the serial number usually goes something like this
    88AA00000 (just a made up number)
    The first two digits determine the year (in the example above it would be 1988), and I think the rest of them are just the serial number.

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    Example, my first C7 was 85AA00105, which made it the first run, first series and the 105th off the line. My C8 was 86AB00950...
    Regards, Jim

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    Legacy Member nzl1a1collector's Avatar
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    The coding works as:-

    U = United Kingdomicon (country of manufacture)
    B = BSA (Manufacture)
    E = Enfield (Manufacture)
    F = Fazakerley (Manufacture)
    S = Sterling (Manufacture)
    XX =Year
    A123456 = Serial Number

    I don't know who the more modern UK manufacturers are, but they would have a letter assigned for the Ux part of the code.


    Its hard to say why the rifles you have listed with the serial numbers A93166 and A154067 don't have the Ux XX prefixes I would hazard a guess A93166 is an 1961 Enfield made rifle and A154067 is a 1962 BSA made rifle. Where did you take the numbers from the Body or the TMH or the bolt and carrier?

    It's possible the rifle with the s/n 3354 could be one of the X8 Trials rifles? This is just a wild *** guess unless you can post some photos of the rifles in question so I can determine whats going on.

    In the British system new numbers can be issued, have a search for Peter Laidlericon's posts he has discussed the serial numbering of the rifles before.

  9. #7
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    The numbers were recorded direct from the bodies not other areas of the weapon, the usual place for stamped numbering. I haven't got access to the weapons, but would be interested to see from those that do hold an SLR, live of Deac whether they too have an anomoly. You may of course be right on the X8 Trials rifles and it was simpler just to stamp a brief number for quick reference purposes. Thanks for confirming what I have always believed on the Manufacturer and date etc
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    Ah......, that answers it Gil - or does it? You say in thread 1, para 3 that you have found a number......... Then in thread 7, line 1/2 that you haven't got access to them. If you haven't got access to the weapons, simply a record, then what you have in the A-12345 part is the actual SERIAL NUMBER of the weapon. The UB60 or BL72 or UA85 is the INDICATOR that is only of interest to the technical side of the Army. I believe that the indicator part will be there on the body but as it is very shallow and easily rubbed out by the cocking handle slide.

    Never heard of a 'press rifle' We did have some Enfield made 'non rifles' that were early L85's passed around to the press and other interested parties during press and open days. These had numbers but not recorded serial numbers as such as they were just....., well...., non rifles and engraved up as such! (We gave some of the old A1 non firing versions to the usual Military Attaches after they'd been refurbished at workshops and replaced by the A2 version)

    Here's some more for you KtK. P= Parker Hale, BL=Belgiumicon Liege, A=Accuracy International

    Were L1A1's issued to the Police - thread 3? The serial numbering wasn't anything to do with them Clarkie. You ought to sack your advisor smartish and stick to the forum! It started as an as-was War Department numbering system started in the 50's called the 'new codified system' that couldn't be duplicated (?) and told everyone, from the top to the bottom all they needed to know about the weapon they possessed

  11. Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  12. #9
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    The serial numbering wasn't anything to do with them Clarkie. You ought to sack your advisor smartish and stick to the forum!
    Afternoon Peter, well,l I got wrapped round my arse then, I will dig back though my info to see were I got that duff badly remembered info from!

    On a point of interest, I always assumed the limited issue to the police would refer to the RUC, on old news footage, they always seemed to be carrying Mini 14's though.

  13. #10
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Yes Peter corretermondo in your assumption, however, the person who entered these records into the Parker Hale Register of Firearms for examination by the "Appropriate Authority" at anytime, says conclusively, what was there was recorded 110% accurately on each rifle.

    It was from that, I thought I would ask the interested throng for their humble opinions on confirming what I had always assumed as correct. On cross referencing the SLR's specifically in the smaller secondary bible I have, the shorter numbers have 7.62 EXP beside them, so that indicates they were experimental, and answers that one in part.

    You have to appreciate that I am going through a carbonated register with the main copy having been removed when PH went into liquidation and many entries are duplicated and faded, as specific rifles had barrel changes and then had EXP placed beside their numbers.
    I am placing all the information from each line in both bibles onto a spreadsheet which hopefully will retain the history of Parker Hale's rifles and pistols that went through their hands in a digital format for future generations of shooters to use as a database and can rely on it. Similar to what Simon does already with Enforcers/L42A1s etc

    Now that the prefix's of these rifles have in part been answered for most of the SLR/L81A1/L42A1/SA80 and many others for which I thankyou, its great to learn something new everyday about the reasons why things were done.

    In relation to the RUC as it was then, they used the MINI RUGER due primarily to its size and versatility, on checkpoints and the SPG vehicles they had ...........that is correct. I have to say, I spent a lot of time with the lads and never saw an SLR once not even on the border, they swore by the MINI RUGER and the STERLING.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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