+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Fire forming Lapua 243 to 22 CHeetah

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Matt Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    08-30-2009 @ 06:48 AM
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    98
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:28 AM

    Fire forming Lapua 243 to 22 CHeetah

    Yesterday I decided to fire form my new Lapua 243 brass to 22 CHeetah. After conforming 20 cases in the Neil Jones forming die, loading 41 gr's of IMR4895 under a 55 gr. Hornady FMJ.
    Everything went well, however I only fire formed 2 cases. The first case came out easily, the second was a problem. Tapping the bolt handle to remove the case with a rubber mallet is not my idea of something going right.
    Seems the Lapua brass is a bit larger in the web area, and even though I resized it in a 243 FL die, this brass is not going to work for the CHeetah. I called an old friend and told him of my trouble. He indicated the same thing, Lapua brass is really great brass, but not for what I am doing. He suggested Winchester brass as that is thinner overall from the rest of the brand names.
    So, I am prepping Winchester cases today and fire forming in a different manner.
    Running bullets down a barrel to fire form wears the barrel, so I am going to change to 19 gr's of Green Dot, then fill the case full of corn meal to the bottom of the neck and then topped with a dab of Crisco to hold the corn meal in. I may have to increase my charge weight to get the desired results. Will post later on what happened.
    Also, having a wildcat is a lot of trouble, if I had known the problems I would be encountering, I might of thought twice before buying this rifle. I have spent hours and hours on case forming, just something I didn't expect.
    Matt
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    MEHavey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    12-14-2009 @ 08:21 PM
    Posts
    173
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    05:28 AM
    > The first case came out easily, the second was a problem.
    > Tapping the bolt handle to remove the case with a rubber
    > mallet is not my idea of something going right. Seems the
    > Lapua brass is a bit larger in the web area, and even though
    > I resized it in a 243 FL die, this brass is not going to work
    > for the CHeetah.

    I'm surprised. Would the unfired cartridge chamber and then extract (unfired) without problem? If the cartridge could do that w/o sticking, the very thickness of the web should never cause a problem in that area unless unusually high pressures are involved (i.e, the kind that causes head expansion.)

    NOTE: QL shows that 41gr/4895 under a 55gr bullet in a Cheetah MkI to produce ~57,000psi ... 7,000psi over max for the cartridge (as listed), and that's for "normal" brass volumes. Three things may be happening:

    - You have a high pressure load to start with
    - If I drop the "normal" case volume by 3% to account for Lapua thickness, QL pressure jumps to 60,000psi; Drop it by 5% and it hits 66,000(+)psi
    - Did you turn the necks in case the .243 -> .224 resizing might induce neck constriction?
    Last edited by MEHavey; 05-21-2009 at 07:41 AM.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Matt Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    08-30-2009 @ 06:48 AM
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    98
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:28 AM
    Thread Starter
    Yes, that load was very hot, too hot! The data I received from the previous owner was totally incorrect and extremely dangerous. Now I understand why he gave up!
    I'm starting over, fire forming without bullets using green dot.
    Using the Lapua 243 brass, the procedure to reform for fire forming is rather simple. There is no neck turning required.
    First, I full length size then use the Jones forming die with the .250 neck diameter bushing, forming the neck and bumping the shoulder near the neck down .050. The shoulder now is not straight, it's convex to the naked eye. I then use the Sinclair neck turning mandrel and run the neck through it which straightens out the neck. I then trim to 2.012. I check to make sure it chambers and it's ready for fireforming.
    As far as the QL data, I checked it and was astounded! Never, never trust anyone's loading data, NEVER!
    I'm 60 and still learning, boy that sure was a lesson learned!

  6. #4
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    MEHavey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    12-14-2009 @ 08:21 PM
    Posts
    173
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    05:28 AM
    I'm tempted to say that all's well that ends well,
    but somebody already used that story title. :-)

  7. #5
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    Matt Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    08-30-2009 @ 06:48 AM
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    98
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:28 AM
    Thread Starter
    Well, as it turns out there seems to be a qlich in the Quick Load program. The program shows the 22 CHeetah at 50,763 psi and the 22-243 at 65,000 psi.
    As it turns out, that load really isn't that hot for a 65,000 psi max. Anyway, since I made my brass out of Winchester 243, I simply used starting loads for the 22-243 AI which is close to the CHeetah.
    I have shot three different loads using IMR 4064, 4350 and 4895. All of these are starting loads and are in the 3,900 fps range, but not over 4,000 fps using 55 grain Hornady bullets.
    The rifle is remarkable, a 5 shot group at 100 is a hole measuring .385 and at 200 with no wind, grouping is at .520 using a 36 power Weaver.
    There really is no reason to continue with load development, I'm happy with the velocity and accuracy.
    I sure learned alot in these last 3 weeks, and this will be my only wildcat!

    Matt

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. 22 CHeetah Mark 1 reforming
    By Matt Anthony in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-14-2009, 06:06 AM
  2. 22 Cheetah forming procedure
    By Matt Anthony in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-10-2009, 01:26 PM
  3. 303 Resizing for Rapid Fire
    By Hip's Ax in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-26-2009, 06:32 PM
  4. Great Balls O' Fire
    By neolithic1 in forum Range Reports - Show us how good you are!
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 01:00 AM
  5. Rapid fire with Lee Enfield
    By x westie in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-27-2007, 12:45 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks