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Thread: Did the early enfield MK4#1*T snipers have the extra sling attachment?

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    Member TEDIJR's Avatar
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    Smile Did the early enfield MK4#1*T snipers have the extra sling attachment?

    I have a S51 MK4#1*T sniper without the extra attachment for the sling,is this correct for the early snipers? I bought it ten years ago from a estate sale at a local gun store for $900.00.It came with the wooden chest,metal scope can,No 32 scope ,leather scope cover which was a early Weaver from EL PASO,TEXAS.The former owner"s son sold off his dad"s collection right away,he was a ww11 vet with a big gun collection.I drove up there in a blizzard snow storm about 15 miles from my house,when I got there the owner a real piece of work ,said I should have got there sooner I just missed out on the really good stuff,like 3 unissed enfield sniper"s,luger"s and other stuff.But I consider It luckey I got that one,haveing looked for years.It was listed for sale on a flyer in the clubhouse at my local range.It just started getting bad with the snow,but I had four wheel drive and away I went in persuit of my long dreamed of sniper.That gun is a real shooter,with handloads on a good day,some one inch or less groups at 300 yards.I sort of loss interest in the modern guns except for my SR 25 Stoner Match rifle,but that gun is almost too easy.The old ww11 four powered wood and iron guns just have that history and everything else,that I never got enough of,much too the dismay of my wife,jealous.


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    Just for clarity, as in our Englandicon Knowledge Libraryicon entry for a No.4 Mk1(T) shown below, are you referring to the sling swivel located just in front of the trigger guard, that replaces the king screw ?

    1944 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T) Sniper Rifle (click here)
    (Mfg by BSA Shirley - M47c)

    c/w matching Model No.32 Mk.3 Scope (Mfg by Taylor-Hobson & Co.)


    (Click PIC to Enlarge)

    BTW, if you have some pics, that would be really helpful. If you don't know how to post them. email them to me at badger@milsurps.com and I'll put them in this thread for you.

    Regards,
    Badger
    Last edited by Badger; 09-05-2007 at 08:48 AM.

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    Member TEDIJR's Avatar
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    Yes the king screw swivel.Mine is a almost a mirror copy of the 1944 sniper.1943 M47C,serial number AT 4272,TR,right side ENGLAND with a stamp mark underneath,lower buttstock S.L^*,stamping,S51.Scope says TEL SIGHTING NO 32MK11,NO 14563,OS1650A.Scope mount rear left ring is A37986.Just now with a flashlight I found a really good stock repair on the lower buttstock where the S.L ^* is,also the lower front stock bottom has damage all down the stock like from an explosion.I will try to get picture"s.Thank"s I found out alot I never knew.The owner had said this had seen alot of action,I was told.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEDIJR View Post
    .....Just now with a flashlight I found a really good stock repair on the lower buttstock where the S.L ^* is,also the lower front stock bottom has damage all down the stock like from an explosion.I will try to get picture"s.Thank"s I found out alot I never knew.The owner had said this had seen alot of action,I was told.
    Yup. pics would be great....

    Second, yes, the rifle should have that sling swivel in-place as pictured. I'm not sure why your No.4(T) doesn't have one, but it may have just got lost over the years during repairs, or whatever. Regardless, keep an on eBay and also local gun shows if you go to them. You may be able to find a simple replacement. You might also want to try a WTB "Want To Buy" ad in the Quartermaster Stores area for members, to see if anyone has one they'd sell you.

    Third, in my opinion and from your description only (need pics), your No.4(T) sounds "righteous" and correct.... congratulations.

    As noted in the Comments section of the MKL entry for a similar rifle, keep in mind that even genuine No.4(T)'s may have undergone some factory repairs, therefore they may not exactly match his descriptions. A good example is a rifle that went through one of the W.R.S. (Weedon Repair Standard) sub-contractors. A rifle having undergone W.R.S. repairs may be identified by a six (6) pointed star stamped into the wood, with a letter stamped underneath it indicating the specific sub-contractor who did the work. For example, the pics of the MKLicon entry show a different (not the one in photo pictorial) 1944 M47c (BSA Shirley) No.4 Mk1(T), that has no S51 stamped under the butt, however, the butt itself was changed during a visit to for W.R.S. work to W.W. Greener, as indicated by the six (6) pointed star and the letter V, which was their sub-contractor code letter. Therefore, when this rifle is examined overall, it's obviously a legitimate No.4(T), probably having been returned for repair from service, after having undergone some kind of damage in the field.


    (Click PIC to Enlarge)

    So, it appears your stock repair was probably done by W.W. Greener.......

    Glad you're getting value from the site. That's what it's here for.

    Regards,
    Badger

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    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Yup. pics would be great....

    Second, yes, the rifle should have that sling swivel in-place as pictured. I'm not sure why your No.4(T) doesn't have one, but it may have just got lost over the years during repairs, or whatever. Regardless, keep an on eBay and also local gun shows if you go to them. You may be able to find a simple replacement. You might also want to try a WTB "Want To Buy" ad in the Quartermaster Stores area for members, to see if anyone has one they'd sell you.

    snip...
    Regards,
    Badger

    Actually the king screw sling swivel WAS NOT originally fitted to the No4T snipers. Fitting of the king screw swivel commenced in @'43/'44.

    IIRC Laidler discusses this in the "Armourers perspective".

    Earlier guns were then refitted as they became available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    Actually the king screw sling swivel WAS NOT originally fitted to the No4T snipers. Fitting of the king screw swivel commenced in @'43/'44.

    IIRC Laidler discusses this in the "Armourers perspective".

    Earlier guns were then refitted as they became available.
    I didn't realize that ....

    Thanks for the update ...

    So, based upon that informaiton and if it were mine, I'd probably leave that rifle in it's current condition...

    Regards,
    Badger

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    They were not "original" on the early snipers, but many were replaced during refitting and refurbish at the request of the unit armourers.... Or, as I suspect during sniper school or training...

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheaty View Post
    They were not "original" on the early snipers, but many were replaced during refitting and refurbish at the request of the unit armourers.... Or, as I suspect during sniper school or training...
    Of all the rifles I've seen with sniper sling swivels on them, I have yet to see one being used for anything other than a decoration...they look cool, I love them, but did the snipers actually hook their sling in them? Even my Cno7 has one.

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    .... I can't really comment on the sniper use of the swivel, but certainly, and this if from my own observation, in the early 50s the Australian Military type target shooter did. From the prone position, the web sling was shortened and looped around the upper forearm of the off hand ( Forming a triangular support system). Much the same effect, presumably as the US 1907? style sling "loop" . ( Then the Lithgowicon no.3 SMLE rifles dominated, with just the odd No.4, with the Canadianicon Longbranch being the believed best, due to stronger, superior steel ) ..... David K. ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    .... I can't really comment on the sniper use of the swivel, but certainly, and this if from my own observation, in the early 50s the Australian Military type target shooter did. From the prone position, the web sling was shortened and looped around the upper forearm of the off hand ( Forming a triangular support system). Much the same effect, presumably as the US 1907? style sling "loop" . ( Then the Lithgow no.3 SMLE rifles dominated, with just the odd No.4, with the Canadianicon Longbranch being the believed best, due to stronger, superior steel ) ..... David K. ...
    Long Branches rule you betcha...

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