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    Senior Member hsr's Avatar
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    Norwegian Krags and SAMMI spec 6.5x55

    I just acquired a very nice Norwegianicon Kragicon in 6.5x55. I would like to shot it and see how it does against my Swedishicon Mauser in the same caliber, but I read somewhere that the Norwegians loaded their 6.5x55 a bit lighter then the Swedes did . The 6.5x55 ammo I have it withing the SAMMI specs, but at the top end of the spec (as per the Sierra reloading manual). Is it safe to shoot in a Norwegian Krag, or do I need to load some a bit lighter? If so how much lighter.

    Thanks



    Howard

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    Advisory Panel chuckindenver's Avatar
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    i shoot my Norski all the time with Swedishicon military ammo..
    shoots great.

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    Really Senior Member jon_norstog's Avatar
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    That's going tobe my next Kragicon. I'm looking for one that's already been butchered.

    jn

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    I have a m1912 and when I had the swede I always used the same ammo. Unfortunately the krag has a rather poor bore and while it is a pleasure to shoot it does not have the accuracy the m38 did. I have since acquired a m1889 danish krag in good condition. I hope to get some ammo loaded for it soon. Forming cases may prove to be a chore.

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    Let us know how it works out for you, Pavogrande. Don't know of many folk shooting the '89s.

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    Member Eagleprof's Avatar
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    You might want to be careful there with interchanging 6.5 x 55 ammo in Swedishicon and Norwegianicon Krags. On page #81 of his book, "Neutrality through Marksmanship: The Collectors and Shooters Guide to Swedish Military Rifles 1867-1942", Doug Bowser says, "WARNING!!!! Do not shoot Danishicon manufactured 6.5 x 55 ammunition in a Swedish mauser. The combination of soft jacket material and sharp edges on the lands and grooves of the rifling contributes to heavy fouling, which may cause high chamber pressures. There have been reports of several Swedish Mauser Rifles being blown up by this ammunition." Bowser goes on to cite "The Book of Rifles" by Smith & Smith as the first reference that he saw on this problem.

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    Advisory Panel smellie's Avatar
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    The whole idea of Norwayicon and Swedenicon using the same ammunition was to ensure commonalty of supply in case they were both fighting the same enemy.

    With this in mind one would think that the ammunition should interchange safely.

    I have used Norma Amotfors, Norma Oslo and Sellier & Bellot in my Norski gevaer (1918) and it is still in one piece.
    .

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    The curse with all the scare stories ("There have been reports...") is that you NEVER seem to get a first-hand source reference.
    Note that Bowser cites an earlier work, but a reference to another book cannot be any more reliable than the original reference. So legends get propagated, which may have not more foundation than some fool somewhere fired a "hot load" that was way above the original and damaged his rifle and/or himself. These fools then do not want to admit that they filled their rifle cartridge case with pistol powder (maybe because of insurance liability?) and blame it on the "weak" action.

    There was a gentleman by the name of Hatcher who took some trouble to find out just when various actions went bang. I must state at once that I myself do not have his writings, so it is hearsay evidence from my part of view, but I am sure that there are plenty of you out there who do have Hatcher's works. I seem to remember that, in general, it took a dreadfully excessive load to destroy a typical service rifle in good condition. I have been on a firing point next to an idiot who cammed 308 rounds into an old hunting rifle in 30-06 and complained about the lousy accuracy and the funny-looking necks after firing! If that had exploded, do you think he would have admitted his stupidity?

    So if there really was an accident caused by firing Danishicon 6.5x55 ammo in a Swedish Mauser, then someone out there ought to have real source info, not "someone wrote that someone wrote that someone wrote....!

    And the Kragicon action is supposed to be weaker in the locking action than the Mauser action in the Swedes - as indicated by the lighter loading (if that is true). So it is a mystery to me how a Krag load could endanger a Swedish Mauser. Perhaps someone could explain?

    Sorry about the rant, but in safety matters we need checkable facts, not hearsay.

    And it is SAAMI, not SAMMI
    And (a matter that has been dealt with exhaustively in other places) military rifles in 6,5x55 were NOT made to SAAMI standard - they were made long before SAAMI was set up in 1926 - which is why it is ACWOTAM to check out Scandivian milsurps with SAAMI headspace gauges, for instance.

    Rant over. Apologies to those who may feel irritated!

    Patrick

    P.S: SAAMI
    "The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components. SAAMI was founded in 1926 at the request of the federal government .... (end of quote from the SAAMI website9
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 11-09-2010 at 08:48 AM. Reason: P.S: SAAMI

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Finally, the answer to the question from hsr

    Getting back to the original question from hsr, which has not yet been properly answered:
    Since the Kragicon action is supposed to be weaker in the bolt locking than the Swedishicon Mauser, general safety principles indicate that you should start off with the lightest load from the manual, and work up carefully. checking for signs of overpressure - the standard procedure for all old rifles!

    As you have already suspected yourself, the max. pressure according to SAAMI - which can only be valid for new rifles made to SAAMI specs, not for a 110-120 year old rifle that was NOT made to those specs - would be inadvisable for an old banger.

    Patrick

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    Really Senior Member jon_norstog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellie View Post
    The whole idea of Norwayicon and Swedenicon using the same ammunition was to ensure commonalty of supply in case they were both fighting the same enemy.

    ......
    .
    Our great uncle Olaf told us when we wer kids. "Do youknow what these long skinny bullets are for, boys?" "It's for shooting dem long tall Svedes!" So much for joint defense.

    jn

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