+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: Getting the most accuracy from a No. 4 MK1*

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Legacy Member sigman2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    08-14-2021 @ 10:53 PM
    Location
    North Alabama
    Age
    72
    Posts
    26
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:34 PM

    Getting the most accuracy from a No. 4 MK1*

    Sirs,

    I recently purchased a 1943 Long Branch No.4 MK1* serial no. 33L8897. The rifle seems to be in excellent condition with a bright, sharp 2 groove barrel. The bolt is mis-matched and has a no. 2 bolt head.

    My concern is the the entire barreled action pivots up and down in the stock. The pivot point being the front trigger guard screw. Is this condition detrimental to accuracy? How can I correct it? Shims, bedding, etc.?

    Also this rifle has the 300/600 yard flip sight. Can I replace it with the micrometer adjustable type?

    Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
    sigman2

    Retired
    NRA Patron Member
    03 C&R Holder

    Forever searching for my father's M1 Garand SA 893999.

    In honor of my father, Howard C. Ricks, 4th Marine Division - Roi-Namur, Saipan, Tinian & Iwo Jima. 85 years and still going strong!

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    shottist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    08-09-2014 @ 05:35 PM
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    41
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:34 PM
    There are many others on this Forum who are much more knowledgeable than I and can help you with this/these problems but my guess is that you probably need a new Butt stock. These are somewhat eccentric rifles with bedding requirements quite different than other bolt action rifles. In regard to the rear sights: I believe you have a couple of options from a military micrometer sight with elevation only adjustments to a full bore Parker Hale target sight with both elevation and windage adjustment, expensive, ($200 plus, but worth every penny). There is a windage/elevation adjustable sight available from Sarco. This is a sight originally intended for a .22 rifle and does require the enlargement of the action mounting hole. Hope this helps a little.

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Banned Edward Horton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last On
    09-10-2011 @ 01:42 PM
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Age
    73
    Posts
    935
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:34 PM
    Your Enfield is suffering from lack of raw linseed oilicon and the stock dried out and shrank. New Enfield stocks before assembly were hot dipped in a tank of RAW linseed oil and allowed to soak until the oil penetrated deeply into the wood. Also during the Enfields yearly inspection the armourer if needed would toss the stock in a hot tank of RAW linseed oil.



    Did I tell you that during assembly and maintenance the stock NEVER had the new modern fake BLOicon (Boiled Linseed Oil that isn't even boiled anymore) applied to it. (subtle hint)

    Your stock shrank and the draws area loosened up severely and your forward trigger guard screw bushing or collar is also too long.

    NOTE: If you remove the bushing/collar and re-tighten the front trigger guard screw your fore stock should be snug and not rock or move. Also by inserting a feeler gauge between the very rear of the stock and receiver socket the feeler gauge thickness on each side will be your approximate shim thickness for that side of the draws during the shimming process.



    Step No.1 is re-hydrating your stock with raw linseed oil, you can let it soak in a wall paper wetting tray and hope the oil soaks in and makes you bedding job simpler.



    The forward trigger guard screw is the fulcrum point of the fore stock and wood shrinkage will cause the fore stock to rock like a kids teeter totter.





    If you can insert a feeler gauge between the rear of the fore stock and the receiver socket you have wood shrinkage.



    The area below is called the "draws" and when shimmed properly it "draws the fore stock up tight" against the receiver socket. The draws area acts like the second missing bedding screw and tightens the rear of the stock.





    You can find the maintenance and bedding instructions for the No.4 Enfield here in our "Lee Enfield On-line Knowledge Librariesicon (Index of Articles)" below.

    1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (Complete Set) - Military Surplus Collectors Forums



    Draws area contact points.



    And also here.







    Did I say use only raw linseed oil (You can rub any type finish you want on later but you need the raw linseed oil "insided" the wood.)

    A 50/50 mix of raw linseed oil and turpentine a evaporative oil distilled from pine sap will help the oil soak into the wood.





    Last edited by Edward Horton; 04-28-2010 at 11:40 PM.

  6. #4
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    curly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    11-18-2012 @ 12:47 PM
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    36
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:34 PM

    Raw vs Boiled...

    Mr Horton,

    Perhaps this has been discussed many times (sorry) but can you explain what the difference is between Boiled linseed oilicon and "Hot" Raw linseed oilicon is? I'm guessing here but surely Boiled Linseed Oil started off life as Raw Linseed Oil but was then heated - presumably to boiling temperature. If the recommended treatment for Enfield stocks is to immerse them in Hot Raw Linseed Oil what is the difference? With the tanks of Hot Raw Linseed Oil was care taken never to reach boiling point because it would then become Boiled Linseed Oil?...

    Excellent article above by the way, thank you.

    Curly

  7. #5
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    RJW NZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last On
    10-04-2014 @ 11:58 PM
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    1,241
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by sigman2 View Post
    Sirs,

    I recently purchased a 1943 Long Branch No.4 MK1* serial no. 33L8897. The rifle seems to be in excellent condition with a bright, sharp 2 groove barrel. The bolt is mis-matched and has a no. 2 bolt head.

    My concern is the the entire barreled action pivots up and down in the stock. The pivot point being the front trigger guard screw. Is this condition detrimental to accuracy? How can I correct it? Shims, bedding, etc.?

    Also this rifle has the 300/600 yard flip sight. Can I replace it with the micrometer adjustable type?

    Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice.
    Good observation on your part that everything pivots at the front screw area, most folks would never know that. The replies you've got above are pretty technical, but are dead on the money for being really good advice.
    Resoaking the wood in oil sounds like a huge pain in the a, and if you're not inclined to do it, and the wear is not too much here's some ideas.

    Its a little tricky giving advice without seeing the rifle, and in spite of that, lol, I'll toss in 2 cents worth. The pros around should correct me here too if I'm off track.

    A)You can make the front triggerguard/screw area clamp onto the wood by carefully/slightly shortening the bushing that the bolt goes through. There is a proper method here on this forum, and if you want to do this, someone will point you.

    b) If your front screw is clamping the trigger guard firmly to the wood when tightened, and you can make an up and down movement happen with the wood at the back of the trigger guard, then you may have something that can be fixed with simple stuff, by packing either side of the trigger under the trigger guard, or on top of the draws. Some enfields develop this looseness over time due to wood shrinkage. Sometimes shooters want this area tighter on the wood too for improved accuracy even if not too loose start with.

    First, go to the front of your rifle and make that movement at the rear happen. Enfield no4's have a floating barrel and it should be pretty much centered where it exits the front hand guards/fore end. If the looseness lets you push the barrel to the bottom of the hole, then your wear and tear is at the top of the draws. If the looseness lets you push the barrel to the top of the hole, then your wear is at the bottom of the draws. If you can do both, then you have wood shrinkage that has affected both areas.

    Turn the rifle upside down and go to the back of the trigger guard; target shooters sometimes put thin strips of stiff card about one inch long on both sides of the trigger on that little ledge that the guard presses against. This takes up slack that lets the barrel go up at the front. There can be 3-4 layers here sometimes. A proper fitting trigger guard should match to its two screw holes and lay flat in the wood, without any leverage or pressure being applied. In your case tho you need to fiddle everything a bit until the slack is taken out, sometimes it will take some shooting to help it settle down.

    If you're taking up slack that lets the front of the barrel go down, then you have to pack on top of the fore end wood where it touches the receiver, the draws area in one of the pics shown above. This will involve taking the fore end on and off a few times and packing it more or less, until you get it right. One of my rifles had thin brass sheet cut into patches the shape of the wood, to pack it up. The pressure of assembling the rifle usually squashes all these shims into place and they mostly stay put during future dismantlings.

    (There is a set of pics here on this forum about enfield accurising techniques that show all of these packings/shims in place on a couple of fultons target rifles.)

    Getting the looseness out before you go shooting is crucial.

    Recoil forces on a fore end thats not clamped tightly by that front screw will, and I mean will, split the wood in one shot, sometimes as far as the front band, with that front screw behaving like a wedge. This also means that pieces of split fore end wood are coming backwards, very close to your eyes, don't shoot without safety glasses. I can vouch for all of this from experience, and I got lucky without getting the stock in my eye. The left and right sides of the fore end came back behind the wrist where the serial number is, thats far, and way too close.

    However, get it basically right and you're in business. There's also plenty of enfield videos on youtube and perhaps there's something on this subject, its growing all the time.

    Milled micrometer enfield no4 mk1 sights are $20 or so from springfield sporters and are easy to fit right on where your flip/flop is, with the same pivot, spring etc etc..
    Last edited by RJW NZ; 04-29-2010 at 08:19 AM.

  8. #6
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    JBS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last On
    07-08-2019 @ 09:37 AM
    Location
    removed
    Posts
    455
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:34 PM
    Excellent write-up Ed

  9. #7
    Banned Edward Horton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Last On
    09-10-2011 @ 01:42 PM
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Age
    73
    Posts
    935
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by curly View Post
    Mr Horton,

    Perhaps this has been discussed many times (sorry) but can you explain what the difference is between Boiled Linseed Oil and "Hot" Raw Linseed Oil is? I'm guessing here but surely Boiled Linseed Oil started off life as Raw Linseed Oil but was then heated - presumably to boiling temperature. If the recommended treatment for Enfield stocks is to immerse them in Hot Raw Linseed Oil what is the difference? With the tanks of Hot Raw Linseed Oil was care taken never to reach boiling point because it would then become Boiled Linseed Oil?...

    Excellent article above by the way, thank you.

    Curly
    Here in the United Statesicon 95% of our BLOicon is NOT boiled and is nothing more than raw linseed oil with resins and dryers and other chemicals added to it. The addition of these chemicals here make the BLOicon toxic and requires the use of rubber gloves while working with it. (read the MSDS sheets for each product)

    Real Boiled Linseed oil (BLO) is boiled in a large sealed vat and the heating of the oil caused the oil molecules to bond together in long molecular chains. This heating and bonding plasticizes the linseed oil and makes it more water proof and durable. Think of this heating and bonding process like interlocking the fingers of both hands together making your grip stronger.

    If you use modern BLO with the chemical dryers added the linseed oil will not penetrate as deeply into the wood and it will dry on the surface of the wood.

    Once any wood looses its moisture content the wood shrinks just like the before and after photo of my wood deck.



    The problem with dry wood is its density can change with humidity and temperature changes,(warping) this causes the bedding forces to change and also your trigger pull. (thats why they moved it on the Mk.2)

    Raw linseed oil only dries when it is in contact with outside air and dries very slowly. The raw linseed oil keeps the individual wood cells hydrated and prevents wood shrinkage and warping of the stock.

    Also you can see in the 1940 message the soldier was to oil the stock once a month which kept the wood stock hydrated.
    (your wife puts moisturizing cream on her face every day)

    The reason I bring this up is because the last shipments of Enfields to the U.S. came from Turkeyicon, and they NEVER had a trained Britishicon or Commonwealth Armourer work on them. These Enfields had wood on them as dry as a popcorn fart and need bedding work done to them.

    Our British and Commonwealth cousins in most cases have Enfields that received a "local" Armourers TLC and the stocks are in better shape.

    Below are a before and after bedding photos of my first Enfield that came from Turkey, the stock had dried out causing the fore stock to be loose and move. The fore stock was loose enough to cause extreme vertical stringing or shot displacement, in fact the top photo is the best group out of five groups fired and some groups having only two or three holes in the target. In both photos the range was 50 yards and the bottom target had 10 rounds fired.



    If you re-oil your stock and cross your fingers you may not end up having to do any bedding work because the wood may swell back to its original size. And oiling a stock is easer than doing bedding work, scraping and shimming the draws area.

    A properly maintained military stock that has raw linseed oil applied to it is more resistant to bedding changes due to moisture because oil and water don't mix and the raw linseed oil will not "lock" water inside the stock.

    Some Australians with well oil stocks have been known to even bathe with their beloved Lithgows.



    I can run to the local Craft Store and buy raw linseed oil used by artists for oil painting, it is pure and contains no toxic chemicals and then rub it on my stocks bare handed and not have to worry about my family jewels falling off and end up singing in the Vienna Boys Choir.
    (NOTE: In Canadaicon they have stricter laws regarding toxic products and they have safer grades of of BLO/RLO)


  10. #8
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    curly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    11-18-2012 @ 12:47 PM
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    36
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:34 PM

    Linseed oil

    That is a very good explanation, thank you. I'm off to buy some proper Raw linseed oilicon now (well, next time I'm near an art shop - which is surprisingly often as I'm an illustrator)

    Curly

  11. #9
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,651
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:34 PM
    Ed is that manual you've reproduced those two pages from available somewhere on this site?

  12. #10
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 12:25 PM
    Location
    Y Felinheli, Gogledd Cymru
    Posts
    2,526
    Real Name
    Alan De Enfield
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    07:34 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by curly View Post
    That is a very good explanation, thank you. I'm off to buy some proper Raw linseed oilicon now (well, next time I'm near an art shop - which is surprisingly often as I'm an illustrator)

    Curly
    Curly - there are big differences between UKicon and USAicon BLOicon, read the tins.
    USA stuff is a 'health & safety' hazard and gloves must be worn.
    UK stuff is OK
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Need accuracy help with 03A3
    By sv1kSteve in forum M1903/1903A3/A4 Springfield Rifle
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 04-08-2010, 04:11 PM
  2. Polish M44 Accuracy
    By Ruger1962 in forum Soviet Bloc Rifles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-23-2010, 01:38 AM
  3. M1 Garand accuracy help
    By Twinson in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-08-2009, 09:38 AM
  4. Winchester 52D Accuracy
    By RickM in forum .22 Smallbore
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-26-2009, 09:12 PM
  5. mini 14 accuracy ?
    By 11e40 in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-10-2009, 06:53 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks