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Bill Hollinger
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06-23-2010 03:41 PM
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All I have to say is good luck with that.
I have never heard of such, may be true, but still no papers usually means, with these type of things, NO TRUTH. I may be wrong, but still good luck with that.
Also, if it was a presentation gun would it have a proof P?
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We think they made two lots, one early and one late. They made the early lot out of reject parts for Ordnance bigwigs, they did not function. Some had stands for a desk, others were wall mounts. This one looks legit.
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Has there been any articles in the GCA
newsletter?
I have not seen one.
I don't have all the newsletters, but do have both of the best of books.
Why would it have a proof P if it was to be a gift gun?
See I told you I would be wrong!!!!!!!
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US, good point. If it were made of rejected parts and or pulled from the line and inop to be presented to execs or Ordnance bigwigs, why would it have a "P" proof???
Bill Hollinger
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We have been trying to write one for over a year. One problem is that the photos we got were poor, it's hard to shoot a chrome surface, especially with a flash. The one up now is a late one, maybe those were proof fired and intended to work, chrome or not. I don't know much about the late ones. However, Winchester was very specific that the early ones were not intended to fire, I've seen the memos.
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Originally Posted by
Bill Hollinger
US, good point. If it were made of rejected parts and or pulled from the line and inop to be presented to execs or Ordnance bigwigs, why would it have a "P" proof???
Bill,
These too could have been made of rejected parts. Since proof firing was done before acceptance, it could have failed proof firing, the stock could have a crack in it or it was a clean-up of various reject parts when WRA production was over. Hard to say but it looks just like the early ones in finish characteristics. These stocks weren't pre-stamped and stored regardless of what Babcock thinks.
The early ones have the most beautifully figured WRA no-trap stocks you ever saw.
Last edited by Ramboueille; 06-24-2010 at 12:47 PM.
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Here is another question then. It is obviously a Winchester stock but wouldn't one think that if it were to be presented as a "trophy" type Garand, representative of the M1 Garand, one Winchester was proud enough to doll up, there would be the cartouche stamped on the left below the receiver???
I don't know a thing about these "presentation" Garands and I don't wish to sound disbelieving but it just seems a little off to me. Why wouldn't it have all the receiver heel stampings? I would think that Winchester or Springfield would be "in your face" about such an accomplishment as the Garand and want everyone to know it was made by them.
Bill Hollinger
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Originally Posted by
Bill Hollinger
Here is another question then. It is obviously a Winchester stock but wouldn't one think that if it were to be presented as a "trophy" type Garand, representative of the
M1 Garand, one Winchester was proud enough to doll up, there would be the cartouche stamped on the left below the receiver???
I don't know a thing about these "presentation" Garands and I don't wish to sound disbelieving but it just seems a little off to me. Why wouldn't it have all the receiver heel stampings? I would think that Winchester or Springfield would be "in your face" about such an accomplishment as the Garand and want everyone to know it was made by them.
Bill,
When the cartouche is placed by the Ordnance inspector, it is then government property. As it is now, it's not government property and Winchester can do what they want with it.
If it has a serial number, then it should be recorded regardless if given as a gift. Without it, it makes no difference, it's only "iron." Knowing Winchester, I am inclined to believe these late rifles were also made from scrapped parts, WRA didn't give anything away that they could get paid for. The receiver could have been rejected long before the logo was placed.
Whether this rifle is legitimate or not is unknown but the fact is WRA made quite a few of these rifles as presentation gifts and many are well documented. We know of two given, one to General "Bull" Wesson, OCO, and General Hatcher during WW2.
One is in the VMI museum in Virginia and another is in the Cody Museum in Wyoming. There is another one in the Philadelphia area and a few others are also owned privately.
Wow!
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