Real or Repro? - Flip sight
06-26-2010 07:52 AM
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Oh I understand.
No one will say fake or Repro because they think...
A: I'm in the repro business
B: Answering will give the fakers more information.
We'll here are the facts. I received this sight from a GB seller - Yep... one from California. I paid allot for it. What I received was not the same one I had bid on (which looked genuine). The seller has not addressed my accusations of-
A: Bait and Switch
B: Why what I received looks like it was made yesterday...
The photographs are very detailed because I have 40 years of experience in that field.
I'm Just wanting to get a yes or no answer from someone who knows the difference cause I do not. (If it were a Garand part I would have a clue!)
Last edited by EyeSpy; 06-26-2010 at 05:26 PM.
Really Senior Member
I have two that are believed original on two different Winchesters. The square S on either one does not look like yours. The milling pattern does not match either one of mine. Someone went to a lot of trouble to try and make that one look perfect. They are not that perfect. It is a nice looking reproduction. Anyone with an original should be able to spot the differnences. Nice photos btw.
I have 2 square S marked flip sights.
I had bought 3 flip sight bases from a dealers junk/parts box at a small local show a few years ago. 2 didn't have leafs or springs, the 3rd had a spring rusted in half. When changing the spring I found the inside base marked .U.
Of the 2 remaining bases, 1 of the 2 has the square S marred from removal via a punch.
None of mine have the same milling pattern on the outer side of the base as yours shows.
I'll throw up a picture of the 3 flip sight bases. The square marked S one is on the far right.
Sorry my pictures aren't as good.
My concern about your's........ It doesn't show any wear and tear. No sign of installation or removal. Just the usual wire brushed edges to simulate some age. Another concern is shown in your 4th picture. The small hole on the tall blade looks like it's been drilled rather irregular and doesn't look to have any finish on it...among other concerns.
I also have a original square S flip on a Winchester. This was my Fathers carbine brought home from the Pacific. It doesn't look anything like yours.
Bait and switch is common if this is the dealer I'm thinking of.
You'll constantly see the same Generic pictures being used. After it shows it's been sold........the exact same part/picture is used again.
I hope others will chime in to help you. Maybe someone can e-mail you a good quality picture of a original.
I know of members here that had bought from this seller early in their collecting days, to get nothing but grief trying to get a refund.
I hope you fair well. Please keep us posted with the outcome in this dealing.
I just took some pictures of the one on my Winchester.
I'll try to send these to you thru the Private messages.
The one on the left has a .U. stamped inside the bottom of the base, the far one on the right is the marred square S....
Really Senior Member
My comments? I haven't learn enough about genuine vs repro parts yet - I am still dependent on the more experienced members when I have questions about that.... but...
1) Great pictures...
2) I noticed that someone in California curently has the exact same slide listed TWICE for auction at the some time... pictures are exact... so I think who ever buys one (or both) will not be getting the item pictured....
3) If you can PROVE that you got a different item (via unique marks, etc) than the one pictured, I would file charges for interstate fraud. According to the law, those of us that do not buy from him can not prove we have been defrauded. However, if you have and you have proof that meets the legal standards, I encourage you to file charges.
Looks like a pretty good fake . . . in 10 years no one will be able to tell the difference.
Good fake, counterfeit or whatever you wish to call it.
And I will not say why I think it is.
We're surrounded, that simplifies things!
1944 Willys MB
I'm afraid you'll be correct with your comment.
Originally Posted by Faulkner
Remember when we discussed the seller in CA using generic photos?
Maybe this time he'll have to pay the piper.
Book em Dano.
Really Senior Member
Here is a square S flipper for your comparison. IMO, yours is an upscale fake. The best way to learn about this stuff is to educate yourself and ask others for pictures of original parts and carbines. I wish someone would put together a CD with a few thousand pictures of originals and thier parts. Kind of like what Karl Karash did for 1911's and 1911a1's. He sells a cd for like $35 with 5000 pics of real guns. Better than any book. None of the carbine books on the market have any good pictures of parts.