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    Legacy Member superbee's Avatar
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    german marked SMLE (real or fake?)

    Is this a real or fake marked SMLE??On another board everbody said it is fake.Not the right stamps,not stamped in the right spot etc.

    It is a 1917 Enfield,all matching including original enfield marked wood.
    It went throught Australianicon FTR MA/52.The bayonet lug,middle band,safty strap and barrel were replaced with australian marked pieces.The yellow paint indicates cadet use at some time.
    All the other post war FTR's from australia I have seen had replaced wood, why not this one?
    Everyone said if it went throught FTR the german markings should have been removed.It would not have been issued post war with german markings.

    The germans must have captured 1000's of Enfields early in the war.
    Are there any legimate german marked enfields out there?





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    Peter Laidler's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any officially marked ones but I have seen an 'unofficially' marked Bren gun that is marked on the gun body with stamps, in true old Germanicon lettering, to the effect that it belonged to the Hannover volksturm or home guard, such as they were. It was/is an early double dovetail 1939 gun so was probably captured at Dunkirk. It's previous history isn't well known or documented but certainly since 1955ish it was on the books of the Wiltshire Yeomanry and then into Cadet Force use, then DP'd and regularly covered in the usual black paint until it went in to be properly converted to L54A1 spec. Only then did the stamp marking become apparent.

    And don't worry Bren Fiends, it's been tagged by the powers that be and will come to Warminster

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    Hello Peter,

    Unless I am severely mistaken, the BREN LMG is a Britishicon version of a Czechicon LMG that was issued to Germanicon units during WWII.

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    Legacy Member bearhunter's Avatar
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    I noticed on National Geographic channel yesterday that Germanicon uniformed soldiers were carrying No1 MkIII rifles. It was only the one episode of several that followed back to back. The soldiers, may or may not have been German. It was likely they were from some other Axis country.
    They looked like they were either prison guards (POW) or maybe railroad or highway police. Hard to say. The time frame was only a minute or so. I've seen this segment, once before.
    I've also heard it rumored that Axis forces, augmented their armaments and short supply of Mausers, by issuing captured equipment to rear echelon troops. It was common on the Russianicon front and I know a lot of captured Frenchicon, Polish, Czechicon and Belgian equipment was utilised as well. Why not perfectly good NoI Mk III rifles.

    Jean Plamandon had several "Austrian" police marked NoI MkIII rifles for sale last year.

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    Legacy Member Mk VII's Avatar
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    They had huge quantities of Czechicon and Polish equipment, and it took the Germanicon service cartridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superbee View Post
    Is this a real or fake marked SMLE?? On another board everbody said it is fake. Not the right stamps,not stamped in the right spot etc.
    Ok, I have to ask ...

    Bear with me as I'm not an Enfield collector, but if there are people who claim it's a fake, why would anyone in their right mind go to all that trouble to fake Germanicon markings on what is essentially a cheap old SMLE?

    It can't be for profit as it just isn't worth that much and you'd think that anyone with the stamps to do it, would certainly realize it would be a tough sell to an Enfield collector crowd.

    It's one of the best novelty and most unique pieces I've seen on here, well, of course next to John Sukey's Collection of Oddities and Unusual Pieces (click here).

    Regards,
    Badger

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    Legacy Member krinko's Avatar
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    The other board is Gunboards and I went and asked the guys from the 98k Forum over there to come to the Lee Enfield Forum and comment.
    The fake Waffenamt-ish eagle, aka "Fatboy", that is marked on this rifle has been intermittently available as a set of "antiqued" stamps on e-bay for a couple of years---and has been showing up on cooked Germanicon rifles during the same period.
    In fact, the whole Third Reich artifact thing is so full of fakery, the experienced collectors there are out of credulity and very, very good at spotting them.
    So I got a couple of the best to come and explain things---which they did in no uncertain terms.
    Strange markings stamped on SMLE (pics added))

    Go and see.
    -----krinko

    PS. Badger, there are lots of people who will pay a premium to get a German capture marked rifle. I had a legitimate 1939 MAS 36 with the proper Waffenamt, in the proper place---bought for $80 and sold for $400.
    Last edited by krinko; 08-15-2010 at 05:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krinko View Post
    The other board is Gunboards and I went and asked the guys from the 98k Forum over there to come to the Lee Enfield Forum and comment.
    The fake Waffenamt-ish eagle, aka "Fatboy", that is marked on this rifle has been intermittently available as a set of "antiqued" stamps on e-bay for a couple of years---and has been showing up on cooked German rifles during the same period.
    In fact, the whole Third Reich artifact thing is so full of fakery, the experienced collectors there are out of credulity and very, very good at spotting them.
    So I got a couple of the best to come and explain things---which they did in no uncertain terms.
    Strange markings stamped on SMLE (pics added))

    Go and see.
    -----krinko

    PS. Badger, there are lots of people who will pay a premium to get a German capture marked rifle. I had a legitimate 1939 MAS 36 with the proper Waffenamt, in the proper place---bought for $80 and sold for $400.


    I'd more call it gathering a lynch mob- Seeing as you are quoting the other forum, so will I... Straight from the K98icon forum, "GO SEE"

    Will someone please come stomp on this?


    " Will someone please come stomp on this?

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...43#post1433043

    1.Harbor Freight stamp slinger ruins a perfectly good rifle?

    ---or---

    2.Retarded German marks Aussie SMLE after too much BBK?

    I'm going with 1.

    Hambone, where are you?
    -----krinko "


    And then further down...

    "The guy who is presenting it is convinced it is---he bought a story, of course. There are other Enfield collectors who know nothing of German markings and can benefit from a good beat down here. I would hate to see a rash of Enfield Riflesicon mutilated because of general ignorance and credulity.
    Thanks to all who have put the boot in so far.
    -----krinko "


    You didn't ask them to comment- you gathered a mob and went in with the boot!!!!!

    "There are other Enfield collectors who know nothing of German markings and can benefit from a good beat down here."

    "Thanks to all who have put the boot in so far."

    Pretty poor form krinko. Regardless of the original posters situation, he was asking for help.
    I'm disappointed by your attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Ok, I have to ask ...

    Bear with me as I'm not an Enfield collector, but if there are people who claim it's a fake, why would anyone in their right mind go to all that trouble to fake Germanicon markings on what is essentially a cheap old SMLE?

    It can't be for profit as it just isn't worth that much and you'd think that anyone with the stamps to do it, would certainly realize it would be a tough sell to an Enfield collector crowd.

    .

    It's one of the best novelty and most unique pieces I've seen on here, well, of course next to John Sukey's Collection of Oddities and Unusual Pieces (click here).

    Regards,
    Badger
    Twenty years ago, a local wit stamped a 7mm (not 8mm Frenchicon) Remington rolling block with fake German Waffenampts and drove the local Nazi experts carzy. I am sure it has changed hands so many times it is now legit due to the preponderance of former owners who don't want to be exposed as having been suckered. Remember the fake Nazi markings on the Straight pull Mannlichers about 8 years ago? I think people do this because they can and some how feel superior to the suckers they take advantage

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    The possibility of being real does exist, whether yours is I don't know.

    I've seen several pics of german troops on patrol carrying enfields in occupied village/s in Franceicon.
    They were captioned, if I roughly remember, as captured weapons either from Dunkirk, and for some reason I also keep thinking of that Canadianicon debacle/invasion whose name I forget. There was some comment about 303 either being available ammo to german troops in the west, or in the event of a fight, the commonality of needing 303 and maybe getting some from invading forces, and as a result they only saw Germanicon service in the western areas ie France. I'm not sticking up for this, just remembering the post or what ever I saw.
    If there are such a thing as genuine Austrian enfields, why not this?

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