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Thread: Warning to Australian Bayonet Collectors

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    Angry Warning to Australian Bayonet Collectors

    This is one of the reasons why I joined Milsurps today. On ebay Australia a purported 1913 Lithgow Pattern 1907 Hook Quillon bayonet sold today for A$3,176.

    The link is: Australian P1907 Lithgow Hooked Quillon bayonet. | eBay. If this link doesn't work then the item number is simply 110733004454.

    A 1913 dated Australian Lithgow Hook is extremely rare and has some manufacturing differences to the later ones dated 1914 and 1915 and for that matter all later produced bayonets.

    Several bayonet colleagues contacted me during the auction to seek my opinion as to its authenticity and express their concerns particularly in that the seller would not respond to emails or provide addional details and photos. I finally did get a response from the seller when I made an accusation regarding it being a fake saying that they would not accept a bid from me - yeah, as if !!

    Ebay did nothing despite several independant complaints/reports - nothing unusual here !!

    In my younger years I was caught with the odd fake and I only hope that this sale is not the start of more of these dubious bayonets. Would be interested to hear from anyone regarding general comments and in particular ways to get the message out there.
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    I woudl be very interested in leanring more as to the differences between th e13 and later blades. It has been a while since i did an in depth look at the 1907 - its been nearly 10 years since i did my CD - and would like to hear how to tell. i woudl have hoped befrore someone spent that much money they woudl have had more info than the scant bit on the selelrs page.

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    Saved auction contents here for posterity and future research by members ..

    Australian P1907 Lithgow Hooked Quillon bayonet. | eBay

    Member id: adeedavee_123
    Item specifics - Antiquities
    Original/Reproduction: Original
    Era: 1910s
    Originating Region: Australia
    Authenticity: Original
    Campaign: World War I

    For sale is an Extremely Rare Australian P1907 Hooked Quillon bayonet with scabbard. Made at the Lithgow armoury in 1913 the first year of it's operation.

    It is marked 2nd MD 24648 on the quillon, 2 A's in a star, X bend mark and L in a shield on the right ricasso and 1907 in a shield, Lithgow and 1913 on the left.

    The bayonet is in good condition as is the scabbard which is leather, stitched on both sides and also marked Lithgow.

    Attachment 26290Attachment 26291
    Regards,
    Doug

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    In resonse to Old-Smithy's interest in learning more I thought I had better upload some photos from my collection. To my horror I found that I made a mistake in my original posting.

    Both the 1913 and 1914 Lithgowicon hook quillon bayonets have what I describe as a square fuller finish at the ricasso. In 1915 this changed to an oval or circular finish. In the attached photos from my collection the first is the 1913, the second is the 1915 and the third shows all and they are from left to right: 1915, 1914,1913. Whilst the bayonet in question on ebay is diffinitely not 1913 it could be a badly struck 1915, however, the poor photos, odd shape quillon and lack of detail offerred by the seller says otherwise. Cavet Emptor

    Attachment 26296 Attachment 26295 Attachment 26297

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    i knew of th esquare fullers, and i also beleive the hook on the earlier ones is differetn or is it that the hooks on all Auastralian ones is slightly squarer then the UKicon ones. Mine is a 14 model,

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    to me that hook on the bayonet appears to be deeper than the on e on your Lithgowicon bayonets. Call me crazy if yo like but me thinks that the fish in denmark are getting a bit smelly!!!.
    Regards
    Fergs

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    What's the feeling about this one an EFD from NZicon...

    Enfield 1907 smle .303 bayonet with quillion | eBay

    Thought the clearance / oil hole happened when the quillon was removed?

    The finish on the quillon is too different to that on the pommel or it could just be the photo.

    But what do I know? Know enough to raise the question here amongst those who do.

    Thanks in advance.

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    That's good stuff. Who knows if it was deliberate or not but it has saved someone buying a dud. We done for initiating the thread!

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    In reply to Old Smithy's question of August 29 in regard to the square look of Australianicon Hook quillons I can advise that the Australians are both squarer and thicker.

    I have been able to measure those still in my collection and they consist of the makers Enfield, Sanderson, Wilkinson, Chapman and Mole. In regard to the actual pattern all of the Britishicon and Australians are nearly identical. Measurements from the edge of blade (top - closest to mussle ring) to bottom of the hook are:
    British between 58.0 and 58.3mm
    Australian between 60.0 and 60.1mm

    For the measurement from the back of the crossguard just below the hilt to the hook end are:
    Briitish between 35.7 and 37.2mm
    Australian between 38.8 and 39.1mm

    All British edges are rounded and in particular my Wilkinson the rounding is quite pronounced. On the other hand the Lithgows (see photos previously) are quite square with minor rounding to the bottom edges only. However, until this exercise I had not been aware that at the bottom of the hook curve the thickness of the hook is greater which gives the Lithgows that chunky look. Measurements are:
    British between 5.5 x 5.3mm and 5.8mm x 5.5mm
    Australian between 6.7 x 5.9mm and 6.7 x 6.2mm
    Regards

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    Welcome Gunner59, sorry I didn't see your post whilst I was composing my last one.

    I guess you are quoting NZicon$. Unfortunately they don't make these anymore and with more and more collectors aided by the internet the old supply and demand comes into play forcing prices up. You just have to work out a value in your mind but need to watch quality as it is no good paying big dollars for a worn out or questionable piece.
    Cheers

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