+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: I. Hollis and Sons Martini Sporter- What do you think?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    johnny.50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last On
    05-29-2014 @ 05:58 AM
    Location
    Afghanistan
    Posts
    14
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:10 PM

    I. Hollis and Sons Martini Sporter- What do you think?

    Hi all,

    Back from the bazaar this Sunday evening with a few new finds.

    this is a Hollis and Sons sporter Martini. Please provide thoughts/feedback- is it authentic? I know there are a few parts replaced, but i am mostly concerned with the receiver and barrel. Rifling is decent- not as good as normally found here, but it mic's out ok. The pistol grip has chequering, but the fore stock does not. I think it is from a MKII. No safety, no indicator. The action is completely enclosed and is removable by releasing the one trigger housing screw.

    Anyone know where i can get the blades to replace the ones missing on the express sight?

    Also, has a one-piece action. I've seen it before, but not sure where.





    Is this the Martini Trademark?









    Thanks for the input!


    johnny
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #2
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    johnny.50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last On
    05-29-2014 @ 05:58 AM
    Location
    Afghanistan
    Posts
    14
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:10 PM
    Thread Starter
    whoops!

    I meant, is this the martini trademark?

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #3
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    06-25-2023 @ 06:36 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,032
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:40 PM

    "Recycled" barrel???

    I have reservations about this one.
    In the 5th photo, the mark below the hypothetical M-mark might, with some good will, be interpreted as a very worn example of the Liege "perron" mark.

    In the next photo, the marks look as if they were formed from individual chisel strokes, not a single blow with a proper stamp. And the numbers appear to have a hand-scratched oriental look about them. The trigger is also very crude.

    But the makers name on the barrel looks good.

    Thought: maybe an original Belgian-made barrel that was "recycled "long before the word was invented.


    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 01-22-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  6. #4
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    johnny.50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last On
    05-29-2014 @ 05:58 AM
    Location
    Afghanistan
    Posts
    14
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:10 PM
    Thread Starter
    Patrick, I don't think it's a a perron. I have two belgian rifles here to compare and this is not one of them. it is really a beautiful gun, i wish i could remember where i saw this type of action before.

  7. #5
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    06-25-2023 @ 06:36 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,032
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:40 PM

    Francotte style - the rest is up to you!

    Well, you've got the rifle in front of you - I haven't. But the style of the receiver is definitely Francotte Martini, and English gunmakers imported a lot of Belgian barrels.

    The decoration on the receiver bothers me. One the right side, the patterning with the central circle matches in well with the receiver shape. On the left side it does not. The circular area is disturbed by a rectangular section that does not match up well with the top edge of the receiver. I suspect that the decoration was added by Ali Bubba.

    Certainly the guts of the action look very Khyber-Pass, but as to the reciever itself, I think you will have to look very carefully at the inside surfaces of the box to see if it has been machined (in which case I would vote for a Francotte original) or hand-filed, in which case it is K-P.

    If it is a Francotte/Belgian barrel and receiver, and the barrel is really good, then I would consider patiently looking out for properly made internal parts - maybe from a wallhanger - to get it back into operation again. You need to dismantle the entire action and clean all components to sort out any original bits from the hand-carved parts.


    Patrick

  8. #6
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    johnny.50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last On
    05-29-2014 @ 05:58 AM
    Location
    Afghanistan
    Posts
    14
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:10 PM
    Thread Starter
    Patrick,

    I finally had a chance to break it down and give a good look. I think you are correct. Dang. I was kind of suspicious of the same things you pointed out. The biggest giveaway is the boss that the barrel screws into. Hand beaten into shape. Oh well, next rifle, please.

  9. #7
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last On
    06-25-2023 @ 06:36 AM
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,032
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    12:40 PM

    Today's curiosity may be tomorrow's collector's item!

    Don't take it too hard! The Afghans have been copying and faking guns for so long, that one day someone is going to set up a museum of "Original Khyber-Pass Weapons". I am impressed by what they can do with hand tools and, presumably, a lot of time.

    And high-tech is creeping in as well. When I bought my M-H there was another in the shop that had very good markings on the receiver. In fact, excellent markings. Much crisper than the rest of the rifle. In other words, too good to be true. I had to sit down and study the receiver through a watchmaker's eyeglass before it dawned on me - the markings had been photo-etched, like a printed circuit board !


    Patrick

  10. #8
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    TheDoubleD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    05-20-2014 @ 09:13 AM
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    175
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:40 AM
    Johnny I hope you bought this rifle! It is a nice European sporter. Most likely Belgiumicon made and most likely a Francotte.

    It does have some spurious and fake marks and a possible restamp mark. The I. Hollis mark on the barrel is a remark with modern made stamps. Hollis marks should be engraving and not stamps.

    The Martini Trademark only appears on actions as that was the part that was patented. Given the heavy wear it is very likely the is a Perron.

    This would make a grand platform for a heavy restoration or rebuild.

    If you feel you have been had send the rifle to me and I will send you postage plus what you paid for the rifle...I know what to do with this rifle!

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. New BSA Martini
    By Calfed in forum .22 Smallbore
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-06-2012, 09:01 PM
  2. Getting out of Martini business
    By c east in forum Martini Henry Rifles
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-21-2011, 07:02 PM
  3. Graf & Sons hard to find ammo
    By JBS in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-11-2010, 03:27 AM
  4. Best Martini Henry
    By MIL rifle1 in forum Martini Henry Rifles
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-08-2010, 05:14 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks