Number of rounds fired.
I’ve been reading the historic threads and catching up as all new member should and a question has popped into my head.
After seeing various comments on barrel gauges, measurements and wear I was wondering, How many rounds would these rifles have fired in their service lives?
I would assume that most of their service life was spent sitting in an armory rack and even when on issue for operational service and training, how many rounds would they have fired?
I have had several rifles that I have fired thousands of rounds through without showing the barrel wear as indicated by some of the gauges?
I know its probably a bit like how long is a piece of string but??????????
03-11-2012 11:52 PM
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The rebuilds tell the story
The ones that were used in combat probably were shot to pieces, these have new barrels. The ones that were carried by cooks, staff officers etc, have barrels that are like new. I would say that the large percentages were not fired much since an awful lot of carbines have their original barrels and these barrels have a lot of life left. Additionally the carbine can shoot a lot of rounds and still be in great shape. Some of the 6,000 shot test carbines were simply checked out and sent for issue after the test. If you compare the carbines to the average field grade Garands, there are a lot more shot out Garands and almost all WW2 built rifles have new barrels. The service life of the Garand barrel is probably less than half of what the carbine will do.
You have to view it all from the perspective that ALL carbines and almost all spare parts were made in a 3-4 year period and they never made another, yet many are still around. The Garand was resumed in the 50s and a lot more made until 1956.
Really Senior Member
Some carbines were tested to 15,000 rounds during the war. Most didn't go that high but I remember when I was in ROTC that one of the training Sgts. was a WW2 and Korean War vet. He was also a member of the Presidents 100. He said that after the Korean War they would put on demonstrations for high ranking government officals where they would have a table piled high with 30 round magazines and two men with M2 carbines. They would fire the carbines till the table was empty. The barrels on the carbines were white in color and as they cooled the color would go from white to red and as it did the barrels would start to droop to about a 45 degree angle and the stocks smoking up a storm. Thousands of rounds fired just as fast as they could load the carbines with the magazines. Of course barrels were always available to replace and other then a new barrel and a stock with a few springs if needed and the carbines were back ready to go again. The biggest enemy of the carbine barrels was the GI with his cleaning rod. Wiped out more barrels then by them shooting them out.
Thank You to Bruce McAskill For This Useful Post:
Your question is sincere and not founded in the normal groundless speculation ("I heard it at a gunshow..."), so here's some big picture data: just over 4.1 billion carbine rounds were produced during WWII. They didn't use it all up, so that means the average gun shot about 600 rounds. From there it is all guesswork, but if a gun was held to my head (a U.S. Carbine, cal. .30 perhaps?), I'd have to make a wild guess - 20% of the guns did 80% of the firing. If correct, that would mean the active group would average 2400 rounds each during WWII.
Just over five times that many rounds of 30.06 were made by the U.S. (didn't Britain or Canada make a small quantity?) for about two-thirds as many weapons, but that supply had to be shared with '03s, BARs, and machine guns. Pick your ratios and proceed as above.
I'd bet many more carbine barrels were replaced during U.S. military service because of damage (bends) rather than wear. Hard to make even a wild guess on the Garand, but the corrosive ammo had to have an effect. How many like new rebuilt 03A3s do you see with mismatched barrel dates? What percentage of those barrels do you suppose were worn out in service as opposed to damaged or pitted?
also take into consideration the velocity of the .30M1 round compared to the 30-06 from the M1 Garand.
Barrel wear happens faster the faster and therefore more powder that is burned during each firing.
.30M1 1900-1950fps 13-14 grs of powder approx.
30-06 2700-2800fps 48-52grs of powder approx.
Thats why hot varmit rifles like a 220 Swift go through barrels so fast with that ball moving 4000fps things get worn out fast.
And why grandpas 30-30 at 2200-2400 fps seam to last for generations.[COLOR="black"]
Cleaning accounts for more wear at the muzzle then firing a rifle does. a tleast when using something like an aluminum or steel rod as was common.
Really Senior Member
Following WWII there was a massive rebuild program for the M1 Carbine which also included the upgrades. If any were truly shot to pieces they were probably discarded, and those that came out of the rebuild program met the specifications of a new Carbine. Except for some of the imports like the Blue Sky imported Carbines, most you will encounter today still have a lot of life left in them.
What you need to remember about the Blue Sky imports is. They came from Korea. Most were left there by us after the war. Alot more carbines saw front line use in the Korean War than in WW11. Any that were left in Korea had already been in two wars. Then a lot were used again. The Koreans used M1s in Vietnam also. Both M1 Garands and M1 Carbines were front line weapons for the Koreans. The Blue Sky Carbines were used a lot more than those nice CMP carbines that came with the help of the NRA.