Need help identfying Enfield rifile

[Pineknot]

I would like to thank everyone for the help. I decided not to buy the rife after all. I like to keep my mil. arms all original if possible. This one had a scope mt added and I would have to fill holes.

[Beerhunter]

Yes I have Beery...... I and others dispute that the BM is Birmingham Military proof.

It is a Military proof or it's a Birmingham commercially acceptable proof but it cannot be both. The UK Military have no knowledge of a 'Birmingham Military' proof

Birmingham Military and London Military are Proofs by the Gunmakers Company and Birmingham Proof House from 1916 onward on "rifled military arms". (Source Wirnsberger & Steiner.)



Birmingham Military and London Military Proof are nothing to so with the the UK Military as such, who did not submit their arms to either Proof House. It is not clear to me why that was the case but I suspect that they relied on (the now defunct in most cases) "Crown Immunity" to avoid complying with the law of the land.

[bajaboy1972]

Can anyone shed some light on what i have here ?
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[Beerhunter]

Can anyone shed some light on what i have here ?
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An Australian Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield .303 rifle made in 1940 at Lithgow.

[Badger]

Can anyone shed some light on what i have here ?
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Essentially this, albeit a different year ...

1944 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) No.1 MkIII* Infantry Rifle

Regards,
Doug

[Jc5]

"

Birmingham Military and London Military Proof are nothing to so with the the UK Military as such, who did not submit their arms to either Proof House. It is not clear to me why that was the case but I suspect that they relied on (the now defunct in most cases) "Crown Immunity" to avoid complying with the law of the land.

I don't think it was a case of immunity. Arms made for the government had to pass proof, just like civilian arms, but the manufacturers (RSAF Enfield, Sparkbrook, BSA, LSA) had their own proof facilities onsite (and onsite government viewers) who inspected arms made for the government. For arms for the civilian or private trade, BSA and LSA still sent the guns to the Birmingham or London Proof House. The Crown over BM mark, as Beerhunter pointed out, was called a "military proof" because it was applied to that class of arms that were chambered for a military cartridge, for example, a Lee Enfield target or sporting rifle made for private sale.

[Beerhunter]

I don't think it was a case of immunity. Arms made for the government had to pass proof, just like civilian arms, but the manufacturers (RSAF Enfield, Sparkbrook, BSA, LSA) had their own proof facilities onsite (and onsite government viewers) who inspected arms made for the government.

I've done a little more research since my original post and although the two Proof House are specifically named in the in the primary legislation extant at the time (Gun Barrel Proof Act 1868) the Government's get out of jail free card to ignore the Act as and when it suited it appears to be this clause: "3. Reserving Power for Crown to establish public Proof Houses. This Act shall not in any way interfere with the Power of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, from Time to Time to establish public Proof Houses in such Places and under such Regulations as to the Care and Management thereof as to Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, may seem fit."

So there you have it, by law: ALL guns shall be Proofed at one of the two Proof Houses, unless the Government of the day chooses not to.