Photograph of rare Canadian Telescopic Rifles from WWII (Expert opinions wanted)

[muffett.2008]

Australians have also had the same experience over the years with the mother country, we just laugh, unlike your lot, we don't give up, it just stirs us to greater efforts to produce something better, to prove them pommy b.......ds wrong.

[CheesyCigar]

I had the same observation RJW. Guys with glasses aren't sniper candidates. I'd guess he's an Armourer!

If memory serves, the men in the back row were spotters. (notice how they are paired up with each of the scout snipers) That was the story that was passed down along with the photo, and I'm almost certain that it's correct.
I'd hate to sound like a broken record, but this may not be true. I'm not an expert, and really can't confirm it by myself. (although I'm sure there are plenty of chaps here that could! )

[Surpmil]

Australians have also had the same experience over the years with the mother country, we just laugh, unlike your lot, we don't give up, it just stirs us to greater efforts to produce something better, to prove them pommy b.......ds wrong.

"Give up" is perhaps the wrong term. REL was closed down and hurried into oblivion, the better to please US and UK interests in my opinion.

Even the records were "accidentally" destroyed. Warren may want to tell us about that sometime.

[Peter Laidler]

I suppose I could counter argue about the REL sniper/observing telescope v the Scout Reg scope. But at risk of going off topic or mission creep as we say, the Scout reg scope is still(?) in limited service even today. And even though there have been several attempts to replace it with a commercial breed, such as SWIFT (not dust proof or strippable to clean by the user) and KOWA (the most un-soldier proof telescope ever designed - not my words either.....). Might the same be said of the fine, intricate, field strippable, dustproof, reliable REL offering?

[Surpmil]

The REL TOS was simpler than the GS/SR/TS and better sealed so stripping wouldn't have been required very often; certainly none of that "take it apart and toast it over the fire" sort of thing that the unsealed 19th century designs required. The few I've seen seem to have survived 20+ years of service just fine. The stand was designed to allow accurate fixed laying of the scope on a location and accurate sweeping on a given elevation. Rather a good idea as fiddling around trying to jury-rig something in the field, or trying to hold a scope on a given location for long periods would be damned annoying and cause unnecessary fatigue and movement it seems to me. The stand would also allow the scope to remain fixed on a spot and a different observer to look at the same spot through the same scope instantly. Nice to have a second opinion sometimes before calling down the Hammer of Thor to smash some people or things. Probably more were stolen than ever rendered BER. Sniping was out of fashion in the 60s here, with the No4 MkI(T)s gone. The REL TOS no doubt went to disposal at that time. When the Parker Hale 1200/C3 came in, the Bushnell Spacemaster was introduced IIRC, showing presumably that the REL TOS were long gone by that time. Since REL and all the manufacturing capacity was also long gone, and the scopes and stands were only remembered by retired vets, the whole thing was apparently forgotten about by the DND. Just another case of lost institutional memory and lessons having to be learned over and over again as a result.

[servicepub]

Unfortunately, I am nowhere near my books or reference material. That said, it does not surprise me that experimental and pre-production rifles would end up on this course. It is a method of providing real-time exposure for the new weapons in a controlled environment. Although the Canadian Army Overseas was engaged with the enemy one could not expect to wait for a report from the battlefront as they had other priorities.
However, a range in Canada, where the skill was taught, practised and honed, and a considerable number of shots were fired, allowed for valuable user reports which would be fed from the Sniper Course, through A10 School and up the chain.
Thanks for posting the picture. I wish I had it available when I wrote "Without Warning".
Clive

[Hal O'Peridol]

"Give up" is perhaps the wrong term. REL was closed down and hurried into oblivion, the better to please US and UK interests in my opinion.

Even the records were "accidentally" destroyed. Warren may want to tell us about that sometime.

Kinda like the Arrow, huh?

[Surpmil]

Unfortunately, I am nowhere near my books or reference material. That said, it does not surprise me that experimental and pre-production rifles would end up on this course. It is a method of providing real-time exposure for the new weapons in a controlled environment. Although the Canadian Army Overseas was engaged with the enemy one could not expect to wait for a report from the battlefront as they had other priorities.
However, a range in Canada, where the skill was taught, practised and honed, and a considerable number of shots were fired, allowed for valuable user reports which would be fed from the Sniper Course, through A10 School and up the chain.
Thanks for posting the picture. I wish I had it available when I wrote "Without Warning".
Clive

Any plans for a 2nd edition?

Kinda like the Arrow, huh?

And compared to the implications of the Avro Jetliner, the Arrow was small potatoes.

[Cantom]

Note though that the gent with the coke bottle glasses is also wearing one of the white smocks. Would this not indicate he was doing the same things the rest of them were?

edit: later on read that the people in the back row were spotters.

Awesome picture, some history right there, thank you for posting.

I can't help wondering how the gent with the coke bottle glasses, they're almost literally so, could be in a course like this, wouldn't eyesight issues like this be too much conflict with the needs of a sniper, and wouldn't those lenses be a fogging up risk up or ? Sorry if its not PC to ask, I just mean them as the practical questions. He must have got a lot of ribbing too, they look ... well... terrific. And,, the gent with the cut back rifle? Terrific unibrow, looks so intense he can probably do 1 moa at 1,000 yards before he concentrates.
Interesting crowd.

[Surpmil]

Had my REL-produced Tel., Signaller's telescope out the other day, along side the REL T.O.S. The former is beautifully made and finished, and in very good condition, but what a pain to use: if you hold the main body and try to focus you often end up pushing in the second draw, not the first; even when turning the eyepiece and first draw in the approved manner. If you rest the body of the scope you can use two hands to hold the first and second draws, but rest it on what, where? The T.O.S. is totally different: eyepiece focusing like a binocular or a modern spotting scope and short enough to hold and use comfortably with two hands, much lighter, more rigid and with a wider field of view and a longer sun shade. No comparison. The water-resistance would be the icing on the cake. The folding stand made it easy to set on a particular spot with precision and have it stay there, or to pan along a plane.