No.4 bayonet query.

[JRP]

Hello,
I've just acquired an item and I'd appreciate some identification advice. It's a handle attachment for the No. 4 spike bayonet: all metal round solid tubular body with a milled area to grip; marked (looks incised not stamped) with a Broad Arrow and "SE" (South Eastern?). There's a knuckle-bow about 1" wide stretching the length of it which is flat and parallel with the body and looks like it was intended as a base to rest it when not in use. The bayonet slots into one end of the device so the blade is in line with it, not at right angles. At first glance it has the appearance of a knuckle-knife. Seller suggested it's maybe an adaptor for use as a mine probe. Bayonet has "21" on it; I've not been able to detach it to check for a maker's mark. Sorry, no photos yet. I hope the description makes some sort of sense and I'd appreciate identification info. Thanks.
John P.

[peregrinvs]

Sounds familiar. IIRC, World Wide Arms in the UK were selling them and I think they were described as South African. Not sure what they're for though. Over to Old Smithy...

[Aragorn243]

The British toward the end of WWII used a similar handle made out of wood. It was so the spike bayonet could be used as a mine probe.

If this is from South Africa, it is possible that it was not used as a mine probe but as a handle for a knife blade as they use a knife blade rather than a spike blade. Either way, I hope you can post photos because I'd like to see what it is I now have to track down.

Did a quick search. Is this it:

http://www.bayonetmadness.com/upload...1316427939.jpg

[Peter Laidler]

These handle things never featured in any UK Military VAOS list. Personally, I feel in my bones that contrary to what some say, especially when trying to sell them, that these thinggies were a figment of someones fertile imagination. But I could be wrong..........

[Aragorn243]

Peter,

You referring to the handle in the photo to make it a fighting knife or the wooden handle to make it a mine probe?

I have one of the mine probes and I've seen them featured in a few surplus books/articles.

[peregrinvs]

The mine probe is a MkII 1937 Pattern entrenching tool helve:

Pattern 1937 Web Equipment

The MkII helves were mostly issued postwar.

[Aragorn243]

Thanks for the link. I forgot all about the pick head which I also have. Did not know of the alternate use as a night stick of which I most certainly would not want to be hit with considering it has a metal cap.

[Peter Laidler]

Yep, I meant the metal knife type handle. We always seemed to have two sorts of entrenching tool handles. The plain wooden shaft and a similar one with the metal bayonet attachment fixed to it. Same part number but............

[old-smithy]

I have seen the metal knuckle bow handle and woudl suspect as said that it was actually for the No9, it has all th emakings of a armory lash up (sorry Peter, I know it would have been prisitine from tan UK one :-) )I have a feeling that these might be another of the Railways made pieces. I woudl certainly liek to have one, but wuldnt pay a lot as it looks like they are made form parts and a bit of bent strip steel.

[JRP]

Thanks for the posts. Aragorn243, Thanks for posting the photo: yes, that's it under the No.4 spike. Any other info.: dates, manufacturer, purpose, etc?
JRP.