ishapore 2a1-- scope mounting?

[echomachine]

Hi.. I am new to this forum. I collect m14/m1as, Beretta BM 59s, and now I am starting on
Lee-Enfield (best bolt action battle rifle) . I got a deal on two ishapores ( I like the NATO round,,, and it chambers in all my other rifles.)

I would like to build one of these up as a Sniper with a NUMRICH aftermarket kit.
How were the sniper versions of these rifles loaded? The scope gets in the way of the stripper clip?

I know the Ishapore models were patterned after the SMLE#1 mk III.
Snipers were also built off of no 4 rifles.

Thanks

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[jmoore]

The only reference to a "scoped up in India" 2a1 that comes to mind is an advertisement that was shown some time back on this forum. But it was more for sales than military usage IIRC. As for official military sniper use, none of which I'm aware. Maybe some Indian police "sharpshooter" duty?

[RJW NZ]

These are an excellent rifle to build projects with, so my vote is to go for it. The No1 Mk3 snipers in ww1 used offset scopes so that stripper clips could be used, later some genius at HQ realized that the magazines popped out from underneath and after after that the ww2 snipers like the aussie HT used conventional scope mounts, using either single shot top loading or magazine loading from underneath. The aussie HT pattern with the cheek pad is one of the nicest character rifles around. I likewise don't know of any snipers made by the military in the 2a's, although I'm still surprised that some Indian armory didnt try this considering how it was a mainstay rifle in huge numbers. perhaps they had an all purposes sniper already on duty and didn't feel the need.

ishapore sniper rifle - Google Search

[Peter Laidler]

India already had a far superior rifle to snipe with. The No4T. And later, to date use an off the shelf sniper rifle (the Steyr I seem to recall if someone cares to correct me) As for a 2A sniper, to be honest and for what it's worth, the 2A isn't accurate enough to fit a parker hale onto, let alone a telescope! And no amount of telescopes will ever make a mediocre rifle accurate.

[paulseamus]

Echomachine

Take caution trying to fit a Numrich Sniper kit to a Ishapore 2A.

The Ishapore rifle has an SMLE (No1 MkIII*) receiver with a rounded side wall.

The Numrich kits are a replication of the fittings used to make a No4(T) sniper rifle. The No4 rifle has a flat sided receiver.

To put it another way the Numrich kit is designed to fit the flat side of a No4 receiver, not the curved side of an SMLE (No1 MkIII*) receiver.

Cheers

Paul

[Wireman134]

Not accurate enough? Whats this then? This Ishy shoots 1 MOAAttachment 39318Attachment 39317

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, that's all very well wireman but what's that out at the top centre then? And in any case, our certified Armourers range tests/accuracy tests are probably done differently to yours, firing 9 rounds. Two warmers and 7 to count and the closest five to 'score'. Fired from a special rest. I dare say yours MIGHT pass but on the other hand...........

[Wireman134]

Top center shot is a different rifle group. I have found with the proper loads these rifles can be quite accurate. Condition and proper setup are the key. Sure some or most of these Ishiphore's are received in **** poor condition. Just get the most out of any rifle and you might be surprised. This light barrel seems to prefer lighter (145gr.-155gr.) projectiles. POI is more dramatic with heavier bullets. Faster powders (N200, 4197, 4198) have worked best, along with (N203, RE15). It's all about happy barrel harmonics.
Cheers, Happy New Year Attachment 39329

[ArtioZen]

Nice targets! It looks to be the type used at 100yards, you have a circle around the group and a note indicating "3" in the group / session and some projectile data - We have a fun / honor target shoot system here so we should at least trust that it is what you say it is. That is a very respectable Ishapore! - Great work Wireman!

Terminology and application can be confused so I would like to offer:
Accuracy - the location of the group in relation to a center point of aim - in this case about 1.5” to the right (0.5" left for your second group / photos)
Precision - the relation of the shots in a group to each other without reference to a point of aim (often given as a Mean Group radius or similar) - in this case the first group around 0.5 MGR and 0.75 for the second)

I have read when NEW; Britt battle rifles were passable at a 6” x 4” group (precision).
The H&H telescopic sight program selection was based on a 3” x 3” group (precision) or there abouts.
The shooting position, supports and number of shots need to be considered – more stringent to demonstrate 1MOA capability.

Accuracy is achieved through technique, practice, ammunition (per Wireman) and sight adjustments. A PH sight is great to eliminate little more of the sight picture error from technique and practice for most users – and offers great 1 click sight adjustments for accuracy improvements when in good working order. A scope also allows many beginning, special needs or optically challenged shooters to gain the easiest and most direct (single plane) sight picture and also allows for click adjustable accuracy improvements.

So back to the question of putting a scope (or any other sight) on an Ishapore (or any other rifle) – shoot it first! The hit “cloud” is usually the start of a tuning process to squeeze (precision) and shift (accuracy) where many other adjustments are available before a new sight. You will get more out of an already precise rifle with a peep and even more with a scope – but all sights will help adjust for accuracy. After that, applying your choice or need of sight device is a preference, procedure (drill / tap – attach to existing features / fasteners) and price consideration.
Echomachine: For the latter I would recommend reviewing Sarco’s price and version of the No32 kit (their new location not far from Doylestown PA) -still not compatible with the No1Mk3 body shape. Or check out the No1 Mk3 scope rails for the receiver or rear sight locations. I am local to you too, PM if interested in technical discussion or shoot opportunities.

Happy New Year!

[ArtioZen]

Attachment 39361Please find a group shot last year with the tuned Ishapore as previously described. I would have put this in the range report milsurp online competition but it is shot against squares and diamonds (not circles) and my goal was to step up to a 200 yard zero. The Federal white box 155g FMJ arcing 2" high at 100yds or there abouts...a 1" mean radius centered .25 left.

This rifle came to me with a white washed front sight, which is very effective - I occaisionally added a checkerboard tip with a sharpie (alternating half width squares) and that helped me with destination contrast and give "favors" without clicks.

My brother came to town (from the UK) and having shot very little was ringing gongs at 200yds with 10 mins of technique coaching, then observing FoF with no changes (muscle memory) and I had him add 4 or so clicks on each scale to stay off the dirt and in the steel - big grins!