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Thread: British 6.5 x50 ammunition

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  1. #1
    Member junglebanger's Avatar
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    British 6.5 x50 ammunition

    I've just obtained a very nice Type 38 carbine. I know that getting military surplus ammo for it will be imposible so reloading is the only route, which is no problem as I have data for Hodgdon powders.

    My carbine has a low serial number and having contacted Mr Frank Allen with its markings it seems it might have been supplied to the Britishicon pre WWI as the .256 carbine 1907

    I'm sure the British would not have imported ammo and must have made their own. Does anyone have and information on British 6.5 ( or .256") ammo? Such as type, bullet weight, style, powder/cordite used etc.



    Many thanks

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    Member TonyE's Avatar
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    Britain both imported Japaneseicon ammunition in late 1914/early 1915 and also manufactured both Type 30 and Type 38 ammunition, principally for the Russians.

    Part 1 of my books on Britishicon secondary small arms in WWI tells the story of the British Arisakas including full details of the ammunition. PM me for details or e-mail me at aoe303b (at) gmail (dot) com.

    I would also like to know details of the markings on your Type 38 carbine as I have some data on the serial numbers.

    Regards
    TonyE

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    Really Senior Member andiarisaka's Avatar
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    Some considerations for people who reload for the T38: 6,5mm Japanese Arisaka Ammuntion Dimensional Revelations (Photo Heavy)

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    Member junglebanger's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Hi Tony

    I assume you must be the Author of "Brisish Secondary Small Arms 1914-1919, Part 1 Arisakaicon Rifles & Carbine". Frank Allan recommended I get hold od a copy of your book but I have been unable to find one. You may be able to point me in the right direction.

    Having filled in the form and sent photos to Frank he identified the inspectors as HIKO and SAKURA. The serial is 25188. The arsenal is Tokyo. I cannot attach pictures on this forum but I will e mail them to you

    regards

    Colin

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    Senior Member seabot2's Avatar
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    Britishicon made Arisaka ammo? News to me. I was now wondering if the British were involved in supplying the Arabs with the Japaneseicon Arisaka rifles during WW1. I recall some of the Arabs under Lawrence of Arabia were armed with them. They would have needed the ammo too. I could never find more information to validate that.

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    Really Senior Member gew8805's Avatar
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    At one time there was a fair amount of WW1 dated Britishicon-made (Kynoch) 6.5 Japaneseicon ammunition available. I bought 20 rounds from a seller at one of the Richmond shows and wish I had picked up more, it was all in beautiful condition. This was back in the early to mid 1990s so I am assuming it is all long gone now.

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    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    One for the ammo and estoterica enthusiasts:

    The Russians seem to have developed an interest in the 6.5 x 50 during the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905.

    When Federov developed his "assault rifle" in 1916, he chambered it for the "petite" Japaneseicon cartridge as it was a lot less brutal on firearm and operator then the mighty 7,62 x 54R, especially in "rock and roll" mode. It probably also helped that the Japanese had "mislaid" a bit of ammo during the war.

    See: http://phonomuseum.at/wp-content/upl...avtomat-i8.jpg for a picture of Federov variants. These rifles are occasionally seen in pictures of Sovieticon Naval troop during WW2

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    Really Senior Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    I should add that the Russians did not just acquire a few crates of 6.5 x 50 as "war booty".

    After they had "made-up" with Japanicon, they bought large numbers of Type 30 Arisakas with bayonets and ammo. These were apparently issued to second and third echelon troops during WW1.

    Given the Russians apparent reluctance to throw ANYTHING away, has anyone seen evidence of Arisakas in Sovieticon hands during WW 2?

    I figure that if they were still issuing Federovs, they might have also had a few Arisakas to once again issue to rear echelon types.

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    Member junglebanger's Avatar
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    It seems according to this site "https://sites.google.com/site/britmilammo/-256-inch-arisaka/-256-inch-arisaka-ball" the Russians asked Britainicon to make 6.5 for their Arisakas but with the old spec of 160gn round nose bullet instead of the 139gn spitzer. Maybe the old type 30 was better with the older heavier bullet.

    Back to my type 38. Still working on a load that is accurate with both 110 and 140 grain bullets. Still no Joy. I get 1ft Groups at 150 yds at best with 30 - 36gns hodgdon 4895. Trouble is the battle sights are set to 300yds so POI is 2-3 ft above POA. Also impact is way left and nothing I've tried can shift the foresight blade. Was there an armourer tool for this? Are they available? Anyone got a drawing of one?

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    Senior Member fernleaf's Avatar
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    What projectiles are you using? All Arisakas have Metford rifling which will have a tendency to shoot better with flat base bullets. I went through 400 Sierra 174grn Matchkings trying to get my Type 99s to shoot good before someone told me this, and now they are a solid 3MoA rifle with 180grn Sierra ProHunters.

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