Tool for rear Handguard rivets?

[nzl1a1collector]

Here's the lovely tool, Peter refers too.

[Peter Laidler]

That's the one............. Another of those tools that for some reason, could only be used properly and effectively by one person. Usually someone that was completely cack-handed at everything else!

There was also another similar tool, with a punch, that was invented to aid the tightening up of the cross piece rivets by, well....., knocking seven bells out of them! This tool worked quite well but a better method was to just carefully mig the loose crosspiece to the blade. NOT allowed of course as it would(?) upset the temper of the blade at that point but if you were quick, not too much heat and careful and didn't quench afterwards, it always seemed to be OK

[flying pig]

I gave up on trying to build a tool. The steel rivets are simply too hard and have too long an unsupported shank going through the wood portion of the Handguard to work. So, who knows something about rivets that can point me in the right direction? The shank needs to be about 3/32" with a slightly larger rounded head if I can. I need to be able to crush it to pinch the spring to the Handguard without the shank folding sideways into itself and destroying the wood. To be honest in thinking a small pop rivet of some kind may be more practical? Does anyone here have any ideas?

[Peter Laidler]

What about using brass - or isn't that original? Seems to me that like most rivetting jobs, yours is a typical three handed job. One to hold the dolly/forming tool, one to hold the work in the correct place/angle and the other to tap the dolly.

Maybe you're whacking the hammer too hard. It's not ships plates you're rivetting! Better to have a zillion small taps than two great thumps. Mind you, without access to a Ross I might be barking up the entirely wrong tree!

[Brit plumber]

Have you tried annealing the rivets, especially if they are old rivets. And perhaps if possible try a mechanical method of forming the rivet. I've used my old heavy RECORD bench vice with a lot of success.

[flying pig]

Brass apparently wasn't original, but after the fight with these rivets I'm willing to settle for brass gladly. I thought I was being gentle, maybe not enough. The tool I built held everything fairly snugly in place, the end of the shank was down inside a 7/64" hole with a piece of small hobby sized drill bit (can't remember the size, pretty small!) set into the bottom of the hole as a center pin like the tools you guys have shown. The tip of the shank would barely dent on the pin after 5-6 taps and then the shanks would bend in the middle and gouge the wood.

Time to find some brass ones maybe.

I could try annealing them, haven't done that yet! Good idea!

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The rivets have a flat head. This is supposed to be on the inner side of the retaining spring.

The shaft of the rivet mates with a brass washer which is inserted down in each of the holes in the top of the handguard.

These dinky brass rivets and washers are dimensioned thusly:

Rivet
Overall length: .29" (+.02")
Body dia: .08" (-.002")
Head dia: .13" (+.01")
Head thickness: .02" (+.01")

Washer
Thickness: .04"
Diameter: .2"
Hole: .082"


The screws for retaining the end-cap on early front handguards are dimensioned as follows:

Mild steel, (blued)
Overall length: Max-.22", Min-.215"
Shank length: Max-.165", Min-.16"
Head dia.: Max-.197", Min-.195"
Slot width: .024" +/-.002"
Slot depth: .03"
Thread dia.: Max-.096" Min-.095"
Pitch: 56TPI (Enfield Std, RH)

Not all that surprising that brass rivets became the preferred option for attaching the cap to the front handguard.

[Peter Laidler]

Maybe you should counter-bore the rivet shaft so that you simply need to use a centre punch to spread the end just sufficient to retain the cap. As you will see on the No4 handguard rivets.

There was very probably a foot-operated load limited press at the factories. We had a similar thing in the old sailmakers shops - later called the textile shop and later still, the equipment repairers section for rivetting and putting those eyelet thinggies (they were always called teddy-bears axxholes among the blokes for some strange reason) for ropes and laces etc etc in canvas and tentage stuff. Do the big workshops still have a semi-trade of 'equipment repairers' now Skippy?

[flying pig]

Got it done finally guys. Took a lot of patients and time but it is now figured out. It just became a slow process thats all. I cut my tool in half, and now work the larger spring and smaller spring separately. Drill a tight and straight 3/32 hole in the spring where the rivet goes, line it up in the handguard, mark it, drill through the handguard with another 3/32. Counter sink the rivet head a little with a 1/8 drill from the outside. Put the thing on the tool over a larger hole I drilled in it and punch the rivet through the slightly undersized hole in the spring. It gets tight enough doing this that it would probably stay put alright by itself. When this is done you move it off if the hole in the tool and as Peter says, one million light taps to make the rivet expand. Then I grind the head down enough that it doesn't make contact with the barrel. The end result is a spring set that is on there so good that you can pick an entire Ross full length barreled action up by the handguard. Looks like the originals too. I'm very happy guys. Thanks for all the help.





My drilling job wasn't really great on this one but with practice it will look much better. I'll try to come up with a foolproof jig for that too.