New Manufacture No4 Barrels

[CINDERS]

I totally agree with you PL but what of the shooting fraternity with these weapons we can only go to the ones that have a semblance of knowledge my Gunsmith has some experience with them but where else for me Beatons firearms 250 klms away verses 26 klms to my gunsmith and personnel as yourself with the training have not had the time to pass on to the public or train up correctly the people on these weapons.
Who would have a full set of production gauges I mean the full set and all the blue printed drawings yes the web has them but they have been copied off copies that were copied in the first place, there is some one some where I 'spose but people tend not to share in case some one best's them at their own game.

The SASR boys came down last year with the sole purpose at beating us at our own game and did (they have tried a few times) in the Bill King Shield, 5 man teams shot with No.4 and Mk III's un modified no T's or L 42's etc it's held over 2 days we have won the shield often but have the knowledge of the range (owned by the dept of defence anyway) but their rifles were very good indeed, ahh! to have access to SASR's Armourers......!
Anyway I just wanted to know about the indexing, but agree with you. Cheers

[Colonel Enfield]

The commonality of SMLEs in Australia means most gunsmiths have some familiarity with them, but the chaps with the in-depth knowledge of the guns are getting on in years and retiring from it all, leaving a younger generation who often have little interest in "old stuff".

[Peter Laidler]

It wasn't only No4's that would index on the parallel gauge but where the foresight protectors would clearly be slightly angled. But the L1A1 too. That's why we always used the surface plate to confirm 'uprightness' so to speak. There was also another problem that could trap the unwitting too. That was where a rifle would breech-up perfectly and visibly BUT in real terms, it'd be just over hand tight - just waiting to unbreech/loosen after a few rounds. Several years ago I rebuilt and rebarrelled a totally shot-out Canadian Lyman/TP rifle and only one of the barrels in a rack of about 25 or so new - including a few almost new ones - was anywhere near tight enough, and that was barely good enough if I told the truth.

[CINDERS]

In reply to Col Enfield old stuff to me is when they used the slow burning match to ignite the whole shebang, in fact if you source the course of shooting this weapon of this type and era there is a gesture in the routine the firer takes off their hat in a salute to hopefully the bl**dy thing will go off and not kill them instead of the enemy......!
As in the age of the firearm so to speak our venerable Lee Enfield is a pup.

[ireload2]

Are your new barrels going to have LH twist Enfield pattern rifling?
If the fit of the new barrels are all over the place due to variations in the action threads I suspect that the complaints from the purists will be enough to shut down production of the new barrels. From what I have read armorers are using to installing standard replacement barrels or tossing receivers that do not work.
You should be lining up real gunsmiths who are used to fitting barrels and clocking them. Don't flame me I am just stating the obvious.

[Nailcreek]

I was able to visit Criterion Barrels on the way home from work today ... and had the fortune to take a look at the new No.4 Enfield barrel prototypes ... they're looking good!

[Brian Dick]

I'd guess that we dumb Armorers will be able to sort the new barrels out one way or the other. I'm used to learning curves and have resources to help if need be. I know I can index them properly and they won't need index marks! It won't be by the book either. It'll be the way I was trained by someone who's done thousands of them and guess what, when done that way, they come out perfectly indexed every time!

[ireload2]

When there is not enough metal on the barrel shoulder you will resort to using shims which is sort of a make shift installation.
While an armorer is use to the crown paying for the parts is happy to toss an old receiver (no money out of his pocket) a #4 rifle owner will not stand for that. If the old receivers are highly variable the new barrels would be better off to have an extra .020 material left on the shoulder. A shallow chamber would also help. That makes it easy to face the shoulder to properly index. It might even allow the owner to face the receiver face square with the threads.
Once the barrel is indexed it can be finished chambered to put the head space where you want it with the specific bolt and bolt head you plan to use.
If some armorers are not skilled running a lathe they are really handicapped.

I am still curious about the purists and their take on the rifling having RH twist vs LH twist. Is this a detail that will alter #4 performance at long range? Is it something collectors will reject because it is not identical to the original design?

I'd guess that we dumb Armorers will be able to sort the new barrels out one way or the other. I'm used to learning curves and have resources to help if need be. I know I can index them properly and they won't need index marks! It won't be by the book either. It'll be the way I was trained by someone who's done thousands of them and guess what, when done that way, they come out perfectly indexed every time!

[Peter Laidler]

I think that we are all forgetting along the way here that these new build barrels will have to do several things EXACTLY First is to tighten up. The second is to index properly. That is NOT on the parallel gauge but when the foresight is exactly vertical. The third is that it has to come within the .010" CHS range when these first two events have taken place.

It's no good talking about shims because these just SPACE-OUT what you have. Machining a shoulder will just reverse that. And it's absolutely no good doing either if all you get is good CHS and under or overturn when you breech up hard. And furthermore, I can GUARANTEE you this too......... A customer who buys a new barrel WILL want his rifle to CHS on a 0 or 1 bolthead, you know that and so do I! He won't accept a 2 and certainly wonlt accept a 3. After all, if a Base workshop reject a No3 bolthead as insufficient to provide sufficient remaining life, why should the paying customer.

There are so many variables out there such as worn bodies, bolts threads.................

The only way that I personally would do this is to leave the muzzle end stepped down in line with the rear of the foresight block lugs. Wider extractor way cut. Remainder of the barrel as per normal. Breech up with shims or slightly machine breeching up shoulder (or supply new barrel pre-shouldered with selection of breeching washers) to get .064" CHS on a 0 bolthead with your already matched/professionally fitted bolt. With me so far...........?

Now press on the machined muzzle end, align lugs to give an exactly vertical foresight block and lock in place. Simple.

It ain't original of course but nor is a replacement barrel! If you want to keep it original, then don't bleedin' use it!

[CINDERS]

Well said Peter, that's why we collectors have shooters and safe queens.