"Inland" Manufacturing M1 Carbines - 1st hand experience

[agriebel]

I purchased one on 3/26/16. 90015xx. I have about 250 rounds through it and it doesn't show any wear on the bolt yet.
5x 25 yards.

[imntxs554]

Welcome to Milsurps..Here you will find a lot of information about M1 Carbines and so many other firearms on different threads. You will see there are many people here with tons of knowledge that will help if you ask. What you need to do is keep track of all the rounds you put through it and if you do have any problems please post them here. Hopefully you won't have any, but I have seen a lot of posts about the problems some people have been having with this New Carbine here and on other Forums. Good Luck with yours and Happy Shooting.

Frank

[sieggie]

It appears that Inland has hardened the bolts. I have run about 150 rounds through my returned for repair for a soft bolt M1 and by this number of rounds on the first bolt, I could see cupping. I will continue to keep an eye on the bolt and reports when I get to around 500 rounds. One thing I will mention is the gas cylinder retaining nut still loosens up. I had hoped they would tighten and stake it while it was back since I did mention it was loose, but no, it still loosens with every firing. Anyone with one of these should keep an eye on that as it can easily turn into a projectile if it loosens too much.

Dave

[cnjcomp]

Bought a inland in march of 2016 ser 90021xx. Simply cleaned it and brought it to the range. Accuracy at 100 yrds much better than my late '44 Inland. Worked well with the supplied 15 round mag and my various surplus mags. Only problem was that Grand kids kept dropping the mags instead of putting the safety on. Solved the problem when I got home by replacing the button safety with rotary one. Just to try it I installed the trigger group from my '44 inland into the re-make. Worked without a problem. I would contact Inland. Sounds like you got a lemon which should be either replaced or re-built by them.

[USGI]

I would contact Inland. Sounds like you got a lemon which should be either replaced or re-built by them.

He just got it back from them. - Bob

[pcaine]

I've put 600 rounds through my new replica .30 Carbine M1 Semi-Auto Inland-Mfg Co. SN#90039XX.

It is quite accurate at 25yards using the fixed sights producing a pattern slightly larger than two inches in width.

It produces a 5% failure to lock the bolt if I use reloads, old ammo, and many of the commercial mags I accumulated over the years. A quick opening of the slide and closure and I am off and running again. I am getting one failure of the bolt to go into battery in every 100 rounds of Aquila with old military mags. It seems that failure rate is reducing as I fire more.

I carried and fired the M1 Carbine when I was in the Army in the 1950's-60's and this is the most reliable carbine I have shot. Back then 20% of my Engineer Group units carbines were out for repairs all the time.

I think I will install the flip safety. I am having a bit of a problem locking the slide and looking at the front sight, but the culprit may be a 77 year old man.

[pcaine]

I took a look at the bolt and observed what could be a spot of peening and some scoring on the lug. To my mind at 600 rounds, if this continues, there could be a short life cycle for this bolt, but I am not sure how much. I wonder how long do bolts live? I plan a shoot this Friday and I will compare the wear between the two look-sees.

I'm not experienced in making this kind of judgment, but just to get some bolt comparison I took a look at my Universal bolt with about 200 rounds through it. The Universal bolt hardly shows any wear at all. This makes the new-Inland bolt worthy of further attention and if need be repair or replacement. It is good to hear that Inland is helpful in this regard.

One last concern, I had a difficult time removing and replacing the slide to the barrel and receiver group. It finally came off and went back on, but I am not sure I know how to repeat the process smoothly. And some of the edges that fit together in this process look and feel sharp or even chipped. (I have a pair of jewelers glasses that allow me to do knee surgery on ants which I use to look closely at parts. Just doing so with these magnifying glasses makes things look worse than they are).

My earlier concerns about the sights and slide lock are resolved favorably. My problem in handling. They work fine now that I am more skilled.

Still I am favorably inclined to my new Inland, and I am positive in working out my concerns.

[Sleeplessnashadow]

The GI standard for hardening of the bolt was RC 38-43 with a second hardening of the rear of the bolt at RC 48-54. I have yet to see a commercial bolt with the rear hardened to GI standard. The ones I've tested have consistently been the same hardness front and rear. The hardness at the rear is mated to the GI standard for hardening of the hammer, 57-58 RC.

The GI hardness standards for the .30 caliber carbines were to ensure a part met a minimum life requirement measured in the number of rounds fired. The carbine's round bolt minimum was 3000 rounds fired continuously on fully automatic before the bolt failed. Most parts for the .30 caliber carbines have proven a life expectancy well beyond these minimums. Bolts manufactured during WWII and used to varying degrees during and after WWII commonly show no damage whatsoever. There are some variables at play in the lifespan of a bolt that include the various cartridges and powder loads used and the hardness/condition of the parts that come in contact with the bolt.

Every part on everything, us included, has a lifespan. Some are obviously shorter than others by intent, neglect, accidents, etc.

I have advocated occasional monitoring of the rear of commercial bolts to ensure the wear does not negate the safety design of the rear of the bolt that prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin before the bolt has rotated and locked into position for firing. Make it a standard inspection when cleaning the carbine. Over the years many commercial carbines with commercial bolts have been paired with GI hammers. This isn't unsafe, just expect this to shorten the lifespan of the rear of the bolt with continued use.

Specific to the bolts being used by Inland Manufacturing in their new commercial carbines, this inspection of the bolt should include the checking the condition of the right bolt lug after every 200-250 rounds. The manufacturer claims of the hardness have not matched those I have tested, but they don't require hardness testing to see if they were hardened properly. You'll see it for yourself if you know to look periodically. The softer it is, the faster and more pronounced the damage to the bolt will be. Measured in the number of rounds fired. nland bolts have typically shown damage at less than 1000 rounds. Some have shown it when sold new, from the test firing by the manufacturer. Photos of this have been posted earlier in this thread. The problem is most people don't know they need to monitor the condition of the right bolt lug and to do so requires removing the bolt from the slide that masks the surfaces of the right bolt lug.

Why this has happened and continues to happen, when Inland claims to have corrected this issue, I leave to Inland. Some of the bolts have marks left by the RC test on the right bolt lug, so they were tested. I've hardness tested some of these and they have been consistent at 30-32 RC.

Replacing the Inland bolt with a GI bolt, the action may or may not work. Some do, some don't. Due to variations in manufacturing that do not maintain the standards required by a GI bolt. Replacing it with another commercial bolt also may or may not work. Replacing it with another Inland bolt, monitor it for the same life span issues.

There is another option for a replacement bolt that will work with the commercial Inland carbines. Absent the short life span of the Inland bolts.

Inland's bolts have several small characteristics that are unique to their bolts and present only on one other, the bolts being used by Auto Ordnance. Inland has been clear they use many of the same sources for their parts as those used by Auto Ordnance. Both bolts share the same machining and dimensional differences that make them identifiable from all other bolts. The Inland bolts are round, the AO bolts are flat, the difference being aesthetic instead of function, strength or lifespan. Where the two part paths is their hardening. AO bolts I've tested and used have been consistent with proper hardening. When swapping bolts with the Inland bolts the AO bolts have consistently worked.

Last time I checked Inland's online store sells flat bolts. I haven't purchased and tested any of these. I have purchased extra AO bolts from AO's online store for testing on a number of occasions. They are less expensive than those sold by Inland. Personally, if I replaced a commercial Inland bolt I would do it with one sold by AO.

If you buy either an Inland or an Auto Ordnance carbine, check to make sure the gas piston nut is tight and stays that way. Stake marks or no stake marks, check the tightness. Both use barrels made by Green Mountain but this isn't a barrel issue, it's an issue with improper staking of the gas piston nut and both Inland and AO carbines continue to exhibit this issue.

Jim

[pcaine]

A very constructive response and greatly appreciate. It gives me additional insight, options and cautions.

When I inspected the Inland bolt I also examined the gas piston nut, if you can call the flower like thingie surrounding the piston a nut. I was uncertain how to check for tightness. I chose not to use a tool so I only did a finger turn to see if it was loose. There was no looseness. So I concluded it was not about to fall off and was "safe".

I'll continue to post my observations and progress.

[Sleeplessnashadow]

The tool for tightening and loosening the gas piston nut runs about $20. A number of more inventive people than me have made their own.

Attachment 73247

Attachment 73248

The gas piston nut of the GI carbines has indentations for staking the metal of the gas piston housing into these openings. This is a secure method of setting the nut. Trying to remove one of these can sometimes be a real challenge, to the point it may be better to leave it in place.

Attachment 73249
These two examples are GI, the misalignment of the staking indicates the nut was moved or removed and remounted.
Attachment 73250

The gas piston nut used by commercial Inland and AO does not have these recesses. While thise can still be secured the manner in which they have been staked so far doesn't do it. Be aware they may not become loose each time you shoot or may take x number of rounds fired before they loosen.

Below is the nut used by commercial Inland and AO. This was a new Inland before firing
Attachment 73251
After 500-600 rounds when cleaning the carbine I discovered the nut had rotated about 90% out of the gas piston housing. Which could have become a serious safety issue had it come loose.

Loose piston nuts on any of these carbines can happen so should be inspected when buy any M1 Carbine or it's variations. But particular used carbines and those by Inland and AO.

Jim