someone got reamed

[Steve H. in N.Y.]

If you type that seller's name into a search engine you can find some interesting discussions regarding his auctions.

[therno]

It is back. I guess the sale did not go through

Check out what I found on GunBroker.com!
PRE WWII BRITISH ENFIELD NO.4 MK1 (T) TRIALS RIFLE : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

[therno]

Anther trials No4 T

Check out what I found on GunBroker.com!
PRE WWII BRITISH NO.4 MKI (T) ENFIELD TRIALS RIFLE : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

[CINDERS]

I am going with Peter L's summation on allot of this hype, the fact of the matter is we have weapons that were made 70 - 80 years ago in this case say a WWII T and the trials T and they may have been through WWII, Korea and possible the Malayan incident who knows.
But as Peter L has said many a time probably till he is chasing his tail the fact of that matter is at the forward W/shops or the main workshops they were not interested on the future of the weapon as a collectible they were just interested in making sure whatever ailed the rifle then repair it, test, get it back into service to do what it was designed to do eliminate the enemy.
They may have made sure the bottom fore wood stayed with the action if it was not toasted and the scope and bracket stayed with the action all else was replaceable they were not there to say "Oh in 60 years this will be a highly collectible rifle I had better ensure all its bits stay with it"
Granted there are plenty of T's out there that are all correct but other ones somewhere along the line they may have had work done to them, I am sure there are bits missing from mine but from what I can make out a not original lower band is no big deal everything else seems to have stayed with the rifle. And to me it is all part of the rifles history in what it has gone through during its career and if you have one be happy you have it as there are allot of people in the world that cannot afford one and can only window shop.

[Gil Boyd]

Vinceent,
That sounds a bit "Ruff" in more ways than one

[Patrick Chadwick]

Very illuminating!

Without having any specific knowhow on Enfield trials rifles or snipers, may I draw the attention of forensically inclined readers to the following, for which no specific knowledge is required, just a pair of critical eyeballs.

Please look at Photo 8 in the linked auction:
Look to the right at the height of the Enfield stamp. Note two fine horizontal scratches in the wood that mysteriously stop just before meeting the butt ring. One would expect any external agent that scratched the butt while it was on the rifle to have marked the ring as well - but the latter is totally unmarked. In fact, almost too good when you look at the state of the woodwork.
Conclusion: the butt has been removed from the rifle at some time - or fitted from a different rifle.

Please look at Photos 9 and 10. The screws on the mounting pads have been marred by an undersized screwdriver while being forcibly unscrewed.
Needless to say, this was hardly done by a professional armorer.
Conclusion: the pads have been off the rifle at some time - or fitted from a different rifle. By a bodger.

Please look at Photo 44. It looks as if the marking on the band has been overstamped.
Conclusion: the band is not original to this rifle.

I have little doubt that a hands-on examination would reveal other items that make one think. And please note one does not need specific knowhow of the model. Again and again it is the inconsistencies within the object itself that lead one to question its authenticity.

I am just surprised that people with so much money to spend on a rifle so often apparently fail to really look at what they are buying.

[Gil Boyd]

Patrick, Well put.
If I was in the market for another 4T, Just those few points you raised there would have had me, making a cup of tea rather than waste anymore time viewing.
Take away all that hype about "trials" this and "trials" that, it is what it is. A look alike rifle with many salient markers missing, had it indeed gone through a recognised test house like Enfield, they certainly would NOT have used unrecognised screws in such a potential key moving area, like the pads IMHO of course.

[vintage hunter]

Am I understanding correctly that posts 16 and 17 are saying this isn't a genuine trials sniper based on a few incorrect parts, some buggered screw heads and a couple trivial scratches?

[jmoore]

Happy to see you post vintage hunter! Busy hunting season?

Both the Enfields linked look like "real" No.4 Mk.1(t)s. The first (Post #12) not being as good as the second (Post #13). The dramas for the first seem already well presented, except I'd say the mounts are OK even if the screws have been abused. As far as price? Not gonna...

[Gil Boyd]

Vintage Hunter,
I am saying on what is presented, unless I could take time to check other parts in person with the rifle in my hands, it is one I would pass on given what you have showed. If its the right money for you and you are happy I would buy it and change those parts over time that are incorrect. It is simply a judgement call on my behalf and what I would do in the same circumstances.