Decision based quandry, thoughts from the audience?

[Sentryduty]

So the various discussions on this forum about the M1 Carbine have gotten my interest up enough to actively seek one out for my own use/collection.

Now I have some regional regulations to deal with that make this a bit of a not so simple decision. I have a couple of decisions to make regarding what to buy, and would be interested to know the opinions of M1 carbine owners here.

My goal is to have a shooter grade rifle that functions well, but with a small twist.

The standard M1 Carbine has a 18" barrel, which in Canada is a legal sticking point. Since the rifle barrel is shorter than the arbitrary 18.5" threshold it is deemed Restricted. Without getting into a firearms law discussion, basically for those not in the know, this means that any 18" barrel M1 is under the same regulations as a pistol. Limiting my transportation and discharge of the rifle to approved ranges only.

Going to the range is a slight inconvenience as it is 65 miles away and I get out there sometimes less than once a year.

There are two legal options to allow me to carry and use an M1 Carbine in more informal situations, enter the "Non-Restricted M1 Carbine"

1. Re-barreling an original M1 carbine to legal length, GI Carbines are available on the used market in Canada, they range from $600 for a poor one to about $1000 asking for a decent one. Recently I did find an IBM produced one asking about $900. There is a fellow that offers a rebarreling service for $350 which installs a 19" barrel and reuses the original gas system, sights etc, but he keeps the original 18" barrel as part of the deal. This process would allow re-classification to non-restricted and the "freedom to roam" as it were.

2. New production, the Auto-Ordinance M1 carbines are currently on the market with a Canada length 18.5" barrel which has them classed as non-restricted right out of the box. Pricing is between $850-$1000 new. However the discussion found here has me concerned as warranty service in Canada can take a year to resolve depending on the relationship with the dealer/importer/manufacturer chain.

My main issue is; Should I "butcher" an original or try my luck with an A-O? Bearing in mind that my end state is to have a good, serviceable, but legal .30 Carbine to follow me in the woods where appropriate to do so.

I am honestly 50/50 split on this one, I want the quality of the original, but hate to alter original historical firearms. As my collection is so far a one-way process, I an in no-way concerned about resale value changes.

Thoughts from the forum?

Information

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[USGI]

installs a 19" barrel and reuses the original gas system, sights etc, but he keeps the original 18" barrel as part of the deal.

I don't understand how this is done, since the gas system is pretty much an integral part of the barrel. Can you put an an M2 Flash Hider on it and be legal? - I doubt it. Another idea might be to purchase a few tools and install your own barrel, then have a gunsmith set the headspace. - Bob

[Sentryduty]

In this case I believe the gas block is new, the applicable moving parts are reused from the original rifle. I have been told historically a welded flash hider or similar extension was for a time acceptable, but the legal interpretation has evolved to only count the "rifled" portion of the barrel.

This fellow is doing all of the smith work such as headspace for the cost as noted, personally I an uncertain where I could source a proper barrel as just lone parts as well.

[browningautorifle]

If you're changing the barrel for a 19 " barrel you aren't butchering it, just altering it so you can shoot it here. I was involved in this whole debacle since it's inception back in the end of the '70s and you can also add an extension to the barrel if it's .30 cal and the bullet touches the rifling...on and on... Not a flash hider or recoil check... I wouldn't worry about the change. You can also find the guns already done if you go over to CanadianGunNutz forum and look up the carbines there. One member builds them like that from parts, which is probably more what you seek. You want a shooter, not a historically accurate collector. The difference in bucks will convince you. I've had about 25 of them over time...personally since the range is available to me I just keep them original now. With the mag law we have, it took all the fun out of them and I quit them completely...

[Sentryduty]

Thank you Jim, that is exactly the sort of perspective I am leaning towards. I have periodically checked CGN, and I appear to have missed one recently, I will just keep checking I suppose. But so far no one is suggesting I toss my money at the Auto-Ord gamble, which is quite telling.

One of the things that makes our laws sting a little less personally is that I wasn't of age to own anything when this all started, but I could see how having a carbine with 30 rounds reduced to 5 rounds would be considered paradise lost.

If someone started flooding the Canadian market with new (but the dubiously useful) "Enforcer" pistols we could possibly see a 10 round magazines available to fit the M1 carbine. That would be a nice thing.

[browningautorifle]

I built an Enforcer pistol once. That was many years ago and even though they may serve a purpose as a PDW and little else...it was sure neat. I built it, took it to show a friend and he promptly offered me an obscene amount of money. So much for my Enforcer... I doubt they would EVER be allowed here though. That's past...

[Eaglelord17]

My recommendation is to look for ones that have been altered to a larger barrel already. Realistically they sell at the same price point as the restricted ones.

[lemaymiami]

As far as a new repro carbine - neither the Auto Ord or the "New Inland" carbines have a very good reputation (go do a bit of research here....M1CarbineForum - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company if interested in exactly why....). Your best alternative is a first rate item from Fulton Armory - although I don't know whether they have the 19" barrel available.... The downside to the ones by Fulton is the price - substantial, but one of their guns not only won last year's national carbine match -but set records doing so....

Whenever I read about Canada's restrictions I'm glad I don't live there (even if my Mom was born and raised Canadian...). Good luck on your choices.

[Sentryduty]

That does basically echo my own conclusions about the Auto-ord, I do not believe anyone is importing a Fulton at this time. I have never heard of them in Canada at the least.

All good info though.

[M94/14]

There is a business in Ontario called Vulcan Metal Refinishing, which has brings in the "Criterion" line of M1 carbine barrels now and then. They are expensive at around $300+ dollars, but probably the only game in town now as you can't get the 20" aftermarket barrels out of Numrich Arms any more due the the ITAR regs.
I'm aware of the fellow on CGN offering the barreling service. The method he uses to re barrel is sound, however, I would want to buy the barrel outright, and not have to give up an collectable original barrel that could be otherwise sold to help offset the cost of the new non restricted barrel.

Another thing to consider...is that the barrel itself has the correct twist and number of grooves for use with the .30 carbine round. The original barrels are 1-20 twist with 4 lands and grooves. There are precious few aftermarket barrel makers out there that do that twist in a 4 groove .308 barrel blank. I think I found one, and I'm not sure he ships to Canada. I have experience with the Criterion barrel as one of my carbines' currently wears one. The other was a formerly a restricted Carbine that I bought from a fellow who had a gunshop de-register it with an old Plainfield barrel that is 20" long. That process took some time, about 3 mos. to be exact.

As for the Auto Ordnance Carbines made by Kahr Arms. I personally do not like the cast parts it uses, and the fit and finish of the stocks needs a great deal of help.

I would wait for one of the already de-registered GI carbines to show up for sale, and if in good enough condition, pounce on it. You may not like the initial price, but if you buy a restricted, then get rebarreled etc. you going to be about the same place financially anyway.