Carcano Model 1891 Vs. Model 1891/41, How to spot differences in them

[68rs327]

Okay, I bought the rifle last weekend.. It's in really good shape to be 100 years old. I resolved the mystery on the bolt, the guy had the 1891 Carcano and a Carcano Carbine. He accidentally swapped the bolts while cleaning. He had both rifles for sale, problem is I didn't catch the error until he had already sold the carbine. So now someone has a carbine with a straight bolt and I have a 1891 with a bent bolt, just my luck.
Attached are photos of the markings on the rifle, what information can you tell me from the serial numbers and arsenal marks? I can find zero information on Carcano serial numbers and arsenal marks. The guy I bought the rifle from said it was made in 1916, not sure how he determined that?

Notice the bolts?

[Eaglelord17]

It looks like a 1918 Terni to me. The way you can tell the date is the double digit on the right hand side of the barrel shank (looks like a 18 to me, might just be the photo angle). Congrats, they are actually very interesting rifles (I know I enjoy mine).

The TS carbine he had is also very interesting, it still has the early sideways bayonet locking lug (which is such a weird and stupid idea it is amazing they even used it).

[UNPROFOR1994]

Can't he contact the other buyer and ask him if he wants to swap the bolts?

[68rs327]

I text him and asked the very question... He said he contacted the guy and he said he's not interested. No idea who the heck wouldn't want to swap and get the guns back to original? Or the guy is just blowing me off and wouldn't take the time to ask. I will find a bolt on my own.

[Aragorn243]

I also think that is a 1918 rifle, not a 1916 rifle. That is the date, the Italians did at least date them and note where they were made. They didn't mark much else though, some very early bolts are serial numbered. Usually just the receiver/barrel and the stock.

Someone should explain to the fellow that the bolt is not correct for his rifle and the original is available. No idea why he wouldn't want a turned down bolt.

The TS carbine is one I never planned to get because the bayonet costs more than the rifle, almost double. But then I came across a bayonet that was mismarked and "cheap" and then spent a year trying to find the carbine. Did finally locate one last fall. I don't think it's a specifically bad design, just awkward. The old story goes that they didn't want someone grabbing the bayonet, pushing the release and yanking it off in the middle of hand to hand combat. So yeeeah, not the smartest, can't imagine anyone grabbing a bayonet and having the presence of mind to push the release button. In reality the TS would be easier to remove. Pull the button straight toward you and flip it to the side.

When I have some time I'll look into your serial number. Pretty sure I can confirm the date with that also.

[Eaglelord17]

I was just saying it was a poor design for the following reasons. It made making the bayonets harder (and since you were already making a standard style of M91 bayonet it would be worse for logistics and cost more), the bayonet lug isn't as strong for actually stabbing (it is thinner in the stabbing direction than a standard design), and it required more complex machining than a standard M91 nose cap (which again is more cost).

[68rs327]

I would appreciate you confirming the date when you have time.
I have started collecting WW1 rifles, so far have a 1916 Lithgow Enfield, a Westinghouse M91 Mosin, Finnish M91 Mosin, and a Gew88, and the Carcano I just bought.

I also think that is a 1918 rifle, not a 1916 rifle. That is the date, the Italians did at least date them and note where they were made. They didn't mark much else though, some very early bolts are serial numbered. Usually just the receiver/barrel and the stock.

Someone should explain to the fellow that the bolt is not correct for his rifle and the original is available. No idea why he wouldn't want a turned down bolt.

The TS carbine is one I never planned to get because the bayonet costs more than the rifle, almost double. But then I came across a bayonet that was mismarked and "cheap" and then spent a year trying to find the carbine. Did finally locate one last fall. I don't think it's a specifically bad design, just awkward. The old story goes that they didn't want someone grabbing the bayonet, pushing the release and yanking it off in the middle of hand to hand combat. So yeeeah, not the smartest, can't imagine anyone grabbing a bayonet and having the presence of mind to push the release button. In reality the TS would be easier to remove. Pull the button straight toward you and flip it to the side.

When I have some time I'll look into your serial number. Pretty sure I can confirm the date with that also.

[Aragorn243]

Confirmed by the serial number, it's a 1918.

[68rs327]

Thanks

Confirmed by the serial number, it's a 1918.