What happened to P14 rifles made in US for Britain?

[Flying10uk]

rayg, is the first picture in your post 19 of the sinking German destroyer taken at Scarp-a-Flow during the scuttling of the German fleet? I noticed the picture is dated as 1919.

[CINDERS]

Here you are Flying10uk hope this assists from Wikipedia ~ The fleet is scuttled

Around 10:00 a.m. on 21 June 1919, von Reuter sent a flag signal ordering the fleet to stand by for the signal to scuttle. At about 11:20 the flag signal was sent: "To all Commanding Officers and the Leader of the Torpedo Boats. Paragraph Eleven of to-day's date. Acknowledge. Chief of the Interned Squadron."[22] The signal was repeated by semaphore and searchlights.[23] Scuttling began immediately: seacocks and flood valves were opened and internal water pipes smashed.[24] Portholes had already been loosened, watertight doors and condenser covers left open, and in some ships holes had been bored through bulkheads, all to facilitate the spread of water once scuttling began.[24] One German ship commander recorded that prior to 21 June, seacocks had been set on a hair turning and heavily lubricated, while large hammers had been placed besides valves.[25]

There was no noticeable effect until noon, when Friedrich der Grosse began to list heavily to starboard and all the ships hoisted the Imperial German Ensign at their mainmasts. The crews then began to abandon ship.[26] The British naval forces left at Scapa Flow comprised three destroyers, one of which was under repair, seven trawlers and a number of drifters.[22][23] Fremantle started receiving news of the scuttling at 12:20 and cancelled his squadron's exercise at 12:35, steaming at full speed back to Scapa Flow. He and a division of ships arrived at 14:30 in time to see only the large ships still afloat. He had radioed ahead to order all available craft to prevent the German ships sinking or beach them.[27] The last German ship to sink was the battlecruiser Hindenburg at 17:00,[23] by which time fifteen capital ships were sunk, and only Baden survived. Four light cruisers and thirty-two destroyers were sunk. Nine Germans were shot and killed and about sixteen wounded aboard their lifeboats rowing towards land.[28]

During the afternoon, 1,774 Germans were picked up and transported by battleships of the First Battle Squadron to Invergordon.[29] Fremantle had sent out a general order declaring that the Germans were to be treated as prisoners-of-war for having broken the armistice and they were destined for the prisoner-of-war camps at Nigg. Von Reuter and a number of his officers were brought onto the quarterdeck of HMS Revenge, where Fremantle – through an interpreter – denounced their actions as dishonourable while von Reuter and his men looked on "with expressionless faces."[30] Admiral Fremantle subsequently remarked privately, "I could not resist feeling some sympathy for von Reuter, who had preserved his dignity when placed against his will in a highly unpleasant and invidious position

[rayg]

rayg, is the first picture in your post 19 of the sinking German destroyer taken at Scarp-a-Flow during the scuttling of the German fleet? I noticed the picture is dated as 1919.

Not sure, but if I remember correctly, I think it was, Ray

[Peter Laidler]

There was a recent documentary about the Naval anchorage at Scapa Flow including the scuttling of the German fleet. Some of the wreckage is still there.

[Flying10uk]

I believe that a few of the smaller German vessels are still at Scapa Flow but the majority if not all of the larger vessels were salvaged between the wars. Interestingly, I have heard it suggested that a significant number of the salvaged vessels were sold back to Germany as scrap metal in the years before WW2.

[browningautorifle]

majority if not all of the larger vessels were salvaged

That would make perfect sense. Looking back it would have made more sense again to have grounded them all and broken them up at the time. Seemed more like the act of an angry child to smash them all and send them to the bottom. Refined steel is refined steel...no matter how cheap it was then. Price is relative...

[Flying10uk]

Something else that some-one once told me about the few remaining German vessels at Scapa Flow is that they are a source of pre-nuclear age metals of which small quantities are required. I don't know if there is any truth in this but if I remember correctly I was told that it was used in test equipment for nuclear/radiation testing equipment and it had to be material that hadn't been exposed to the atmosphere since the invention of the atomic bomb. Perhaps some-one with more knowledge than myself could please either confirm or discount this, thanks.

[Cheese Noodles]

Great post on a great rifle. A P14 was not going to be found but I did get a P17. This post had great details and helped confirm or clarify some of the sketchy details I have picked up. I have gotten in a few debates about this rifle being so widely used in WWI by the US Dough Boys. The Sargent York connection was again referenced on the first link. The additional bonus of the scuttling of German ships was a nice surprise.

[WarPig1976]

that they are a source of pre-nuclear age metals of which small quantities are required.

I can't remember where but I heard that too. You mentioning it brought it up from the memory banks.
From Wiki
Low-background steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have gotten in a few debates about this rifle being so widely used in WWI by the US Dough Boys.

Yes, been there too. They look at you like you have two heads.

[Flying10uk]

I have a P17 bayonet without the 2 grooves on the grips. Does any-one else also have an example without the grooved grips? Is this unusual or is it perhaps because the grips were replaced at some point? P14 and P17 bayonets always seem to have 2 grooves on the grips which is said to be to avoid confusion with the 1907 bayonet.

I will post some pictures of it on a new thread in the bayonet forum.