+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 71

Thread: Rock and Roll with an L1A1..............

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 09:52 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,507
    Real Name
    Peter Laidler
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:13 PM

    Rock and Roll with an L1A1..............

    There have been a few myths about converting an issue L1A1 rifle to the select fire role. It wasn't THAT simple for the average soldier to make the L1 series of rifle fire automatic, believe me.

    The first method was to try to rotate the change lever around to the 'A' position but this was impossible due to its shape and by being prevented from going past the shaft of the 'PIN, axis, trigger' protruding from the left side, just to prevent this. You could try to cut it short, but it was deliberately hard, just to prevent this so grinding it would be the only option.

    You could try to completely remove the change lever but it was held in place with an akwardly placed split pin. However, even if you DID manage to get it out completely, with your thin screwdriver and snipe nosed pliers, you were stuffed again because;
    the trigger will NOT rotate far enough to the rear to enable .... blah blah... because the PLUNGER, trigger (behind the 'PLATE, grip pistol') is deliberately too long to allow it to be pushed in far enough. And if you DO try to press it in further, the guide hole in the GRIP pistol is too short AND the 'SPRING sear and trigger' (interchangeable...) becomes coil bound as I seem to remember it.

    There was a method, using a matchstick between the rear bent of the SEAR and the rear step of the trigger, but that meant taking the trigger assembly OUT........., and you can't do that without taking the LEVER, change out..... and that's retained by that bloody akward split pin. AND, if you did manage this, on the range without being noticed, you would have a rifle that only fired automatic. Try explaining that away to the range conducting Officer when his fire order was something like '...5 rounds application - at the target in front - , in your own time, - go on!

    You COULD have a select fire L1A1 rifle, but it would have to be an Armourer that did it for you or a VERY astute and mechanically minded soldier, believe me.

    First, you'd have to copy the L2 change lever profile, then remove the trigger plunger an grind .2" from the inner end...., yes, grind it because it's very hard, for that reason! Then you've got yourself a what we Armourers called a 'big Iron'! And when a standard L1A1 lets rip on auto, it REALLY does let rip. But to be truly honest, they shake themselves to bits. For example. The gas cylinder lasts for about a day, due to it continually splitting along the weak flat area where the PIN, fixing, gas cylinder prevents it from unscrewing. Even our L2A1's were little boys trying to do a mans job. They were just heavy rifles......., and not even accurate heavy rifles. There's only one gun that can be a section machine gun and it's not a heavy rifle....., it's a BREN gun
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

  2. Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    jeff hamerstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-14-2014 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    76
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:13 AM
    Pete ; You hit the nail right on the head with that one!!!

  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #3
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    03-16-2024 @ 12:24 PM
    Location
    out there
    Posts
    1,820
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    07:13 AM
    Ummmn, Peter, I think you forgot an important point...

    Turning an L1A1 change lever into a "look-a-like" L2 change lever is merely what we would today refer to as "mall commando" or "LCF" (looks cool factor).

    I really don't see the point in trying to mimic the outter profile of the C2/L2 change lever as the important bit is the internal cut in the shaft which allows the trigger to be pulled further than normal.

    Having said that, whoever thought that reinventing the Browning BAR was a good idea, should have designed something superior to the M.1918, let alone something totally inferior to the FN BAR-D
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 04-07-2009 at 05:00 PM.
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

  7. #4
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 09:52 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,507
    Real Name
    Peter Laidler
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:13 PM
    Thread Starter
    I see what you're getting at L-E, but you have GOT to configure the outer part of the standard L1A1 change lever to the L2 spec before you can even start to configure the internal chamfer. That's because without the external configuration (to clear the protruding left hand side of the PIN axis trigger), you CANNOT rotate it to the 'A' position. And to be fair (and we're nit-picking a bit here really.....) you can chamfer the inner shaft to create greater room for trigger rotation until the cows come home, but if you can't rotate the change lever................, then you ain't got rock and roll!

    A great thread, keep it up

  8. #5
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    jeff hamerstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-14-2014 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    76
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:13 AM
    Well and correct me if I'm wrong gentlemen, the only way you can change a semi L1A1 to selective fire is to mill the receiver, install an ejector block, and use the correct selector switch. Great Thread!!!

  9. #6
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    jeff hamerstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-14-2014 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    76
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:13 AM
    And install the safety sear

  10. #7
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 09:52 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,507
    Real Name
    Peter Laidler
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:13 PM
    Thread Starter
    From what you're saying Jeff, it would appear that there might be TWO variants. I am only familiar with the UKicon and Australianicon L1A1 rifle. That is single shot 'R' or safe 'S' only. To change it to automatic, you don't need a safety sear or ejector block as it's already there ..... unless there is a version, maybe a commercial version with an ejector block NOT machined for a safety (or Automatic) sear.

    To convert an L1A1, as issued, you need to change the change lever to the L2 version, or modify what you've got, shorten the PLUNGER, trigger, take two coils off the SPRING, trigger plunger. Then you've got a big iron.

    That's the way to shake your L1A1 rifle to bits in a day.

    Is there a commercial L1A1 machined without the facility for a safety sear Jeff?

    Great thread...............

  11. #8
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    jeff hamerstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-14-2014 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    76
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:13 AM
    Pete; I'm pretty sure all commercial receivers that are sold have ejector blocks without the cut for the safety sear. Some receivers on the market come without any ejector block installed.

  12. #9
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 09:52 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,507
    Real Name
    Peter Laidler
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    03:13 PM
    Thread Starter
    Ah, Jeff., you have answered the question. Because without the safety or automatic sear, you can't have auto fire on our UKicon Military L1A1's.

    I modified my standard L1A1 to fire automatic just because as Armourers, we could! I used it on the range quite often during our Armourers range test days. I let rip with a burst of machine gun fire from my L1A1 while stood up in the fire trench. I heard someone behind me say ' .....what the xxxx's he got there! Good fun if you could get away with it!

    It seems as if someone got wise and deleted the auto sear facility on the commercials.

    We were told during our apprenticeships that the auto fire features had to remain on the rifles because every change from the norm meant buying a 'purchase licensing concession' from FN. So little things like folding cocking handles and manual holding open device, UK design flash eliminator, redesign trigger mechanism housing cost a lot of money. As did every(?) modification we did to it up to 25 years afterwards too.

    For our FN MAG 58 GPMG's we had to pay for every modification too. Shame that there isn't a forum for those too. We call 'em GBF's for Great balls of fire!

  13. #10
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    jeff hamerstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last On
    04-14-2014 @ 09:34 PM
    Posts
    76
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    09:13 AM
    Pete; That is very interesting, thanks for that. I have never made a conversion only because it is illegal and comes with a seven year jail sentence in this country. I have fired many weapons full auto in the army. (even blew my ear drums out on a ma duece). It has always been a hope of mine to fire a L1A1 in the dance mode. I own several versions of the FN though, that I built. One of my favorites is a L1A1 with matching #'s and nice furniture, I even have the original upper that was saw cut, I welded it back together someday I'll make a display gun out of it.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Rock-Ola initials.......
    By dbarn in forum M1/M2 Carbine
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-08-2009, 08:16 PM
  2. Lower band roll pin size?
    By 218bee in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-04-2009, 09:31 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks