R.A.F. marked 1911

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

Can anyone give me a rough value here in Canada of a British, R.A.F. marked 1911 in .455 Eley. Finish would be about 70% in an overall condition of 'very good'. I think it comes with at least two Eley magazines and extra 45 ACP barrel some more 45 magazines. An older friend has offered the sale of one to me & were both trying to figure what a fair price is. I've been after this beaut for a while & now it maybe a reality...

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[2K7]

There was a gentleman at a gunshow in Northern Illinois a few months ago with the same type 1911 as you have mentioned. He was asking $1800 for it and although quite a few looked at it, he ended up taking it home unsold for that. He was firm on the price.

Most lost interest when they discovered the .455 Eley chambering. It was about 70-80 percent as well.

Hope this helps.

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

Thanks, any input is welcome. The pistol was bought surplus by this gentleman in early sixties and use to shoot local matches with it in 45 ACP. He stated that the mag well of the frame must be slightly larger as the 45 mags were a loose fit in the gun. So he used fiberglass tape to shim the mags & it work without issue.

[Duane Hansen]

I believe 2K7 is close on his estimate of value, 70% would be somewhere in the $1500 to $1800 range but if you had an original in say 95% or above condition, the price could be worth from $4000 to $6000 or even more. Condition is everything!

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

Well I just hatch out a deal for the pistol, but I was a little over the top in the description. There maybe more like 50% - 60% remaining but zero rust or pitting on frame or slide. The .45 ACP was fitted to the original slide & frame unaltered. It does indeed come with two properly marked magazines & couple of ACP mags. Now the kicker, the .455 barrel isn't as nice as I though I remembered. As described to me: "Well I can see through it..." Apparently rifling is visibly there but heavily pitted. We agreed on $700 plus shipping. Either way I am just happy to get this piece for my collection and will just have to hunt for a .455 barrel in better condition. No rush thought as up here, I'll be lucky if I see it in a month!

[Jim K]

Yes, the magazine well is larger as the .455 magazine is wider. The .455 Webley Auto is a semi-rimmed round, not a rimless like the .45 ACP, so the wider magazine was needed for the larger diameter. The .45 ACP can be fired in the .455, but it will not headspace properly as the .455 barrel has no sharp shoulder and the round has to be held by the extractor.

The .45 ACP barrel will fit in the .455 slide and function OK with either magazine.

.45 ACP magazines are loose in the .455, but a .455 magazine is too tight for the .45 ACP frame. I once mentioned this to a dealer at a gun show who had both a .455 and a .45 on his table. He told me, with a lot of profanity, that I was full of it. He then proceeded to take a .455 magazine ($150 at least!), insert it into the mag well of an M1911 and pound it on the table, bending the loop, until it went in part way. Then he grinned like the idiot he was and said, "See, I told you it would go in." I felt like pounding it on his head to see if it would go in any further.

One small further note. The .455 Webley Auto will fit and fire in .455 Webley revolvers, but it is loaded to much higher pressure. The British warned against firing it in revolvers, and several Mk VI revolvers have blown with factory .45 ACP cartridges.

I don't know if there is any source in Canada for .455 Auto, but in the U.S., it is in the collector category and very expensive. It can be made from .45 Colt by trimming the case, reducing the rim and cutting an extractor groove.

Jim

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

The 1911 showed up at the door yesterday. It was better than described. I would put the total finish at about 60% or a little better. In some areas the blueing has faded but is still there, but on the forward strap the finish is almost entirely gone. It came with three Eley magazines, one in excellent condition with a serial no. (not the same as pistol) & two in very good condition. All are stamped & have the two tone finish. The .455 barrel is in a lot better shape than originally described: Shallow rifling with very light pitting in the grooves. I'd almost think it was the way the barrel was cut, as it is so light & uniform. I didn't go nuts trying to clean the bore, so maybe it could be removed? The ACP barrel came installed (like new) & it also came with another three ACP magazines. All in excellent condition. The gun is tight, with only a slight chip out one of the grips at the lower screw.
The W102*** serial number, from what I can tell puts it in the 1918-1919 range.
Can anyone tell me if purchasing an archive letter letter from Colt would enhance the value of this piece? And could they tell me anything beyond the fact that it was a British contract version sold to the RAF?
I'll try and get pics posted later... To say I am very pleased with this purchase would be a gross understatement!

[Jim K]

Colt letters are impressive to some buyers, and would also show when and to where the pistol was shipped, but I doubt a letter would add any significant information. That pistol has its history literally stamped into it, in the form of British service proofs, property marks and the RAF marking.

One thing is pretty sure, those guns were carried. Unlike many of the weapons sent to Britain in WWII, they did not spend the war in a depot. They bear the marks of heavy service, and ones over 70% are uncommon.

Mine, incidentally, is serial number W107524.

Jim

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

Okay, its raining, expense claims are done & I'm on holidays. So here are some quick pics: (Just noticed the Pepto bottle in the background. Haven't needed this week, so far...)