My newest hard to find French Bayonet

Success with today's auction and got it pretty reasonable as well. $81 with free shipping.

The story behind this one is that I have an R35 Lebel rifle. They had modified shortened bayonets. I purchased one probably before the rifle actually and thought I was good.

Then Ian McCollum published his book on French rifles and I discovered I did not have the correct bayonet. The vast majority of the shortened Lebel bayonets on the market were shortened by the Germans during WWII to roughly 13 inches. This is what I had.

The French shortened bayonets are just under 16 inches and this is what I lacked.

So it's been over a year now I've been watching French bayonets on eBay. And it has been a royal pain in the butt. Most sellers don't list the length of the blade, if they do, it's wrong. I ask for clarification and every time they were 13+ inch German shortened bayonets. This is the first one with the correct length and correct scabbard which has a round ball on the end. The German ones for the most part have just rounded ends although some of them have balls as well which adds to the confusion.

Blade listed at 16" with overall length of 20 1/2" which is a perfect match for a 15.9" blade. One more quest eliminated.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../6mO31bi-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

The vast majority of the shortened Lebel bayonets on the market were shortened by the Germans during WWII to roughly 13 inches

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So...what did they want those for? Another type of ersatz bayonet? Good catch on yours by the way.

The Germans armed a lot of their French occupation troops with Lebels. They had a lot of conscript troops in France. Russians, Ukrainians, etc they didn't trust a whole lot but they used them to keep the peace and armed them with local weapons. They didn't want the 20 inch weak Lebel bayonets so they cut them down to a manageable length. The French were in the process of converting long rifles into R35 carbines when the war started. They had a contract to convert 70,000 rifles which were to go to support troops but only 40,000 were completed in time. The goal to free up the new 7.5mm MAS-36 rifles for combat troops. They never resumed conversion after being liberated. No idea if the number of converted bayonets equaled the number of converted rifles as it's a lot easier to cut down a bayonet than convert a rifle but even at 70,000 examples, not a lot as far as bayonets go.

Bayonet came today. Had some rust on the scabbard and the handle I didn't see in the photos but it cleaned easily and nicely. Matching numbers on the scabbard and bayonet which I was not expecting so big plus there. Blade looks new, protected by the scabbard.

I think I will find my various French types and photograph them together so the difference between them is more easily seen. I know where my full length one is, not sure where the German Shortened one is so it may be a few days till I can get them all together. Maybe I'll find my Swiss bayonets at the same time.

Found the German cut down and my missing rifle grenade. I took photos of my storage crates the last time I had them open so I know what is in them. Problem is they are buried under a lot of other stuff. Swiss is still a mystery.

We'll be watching then...

I dug out the German shortened bayonet late today after I lost the good light so I'll take comparison photos tomorrow and get them posted. That one has a frog. Kind of amazed that most of the French Lebel bayonets I have have matching scabbards.

Here are five of my French Lebel bayonets. You can see some of the various materials used and the styles made. The full length bayonets were made with and without hooks and in white and brass handle materials. The cut down bayonets were all made from full length ones and all variations can be found of them as well. Note the German shortened bayonet scabbard had a rounded tip, the French shortened has a ball tip. Some German cut downs will also have a ball tip.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../FLA9B5L-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../3qF8nRY-1.jpg

Excellent display for demonstration purpose. I remember when those were around with both brass and white, or quillion intact and cut off... Now none are commonly seen.

I managed to get four of the full length ones because the price was right and I couldn't let them sit. Unfortunately the fourth is missing the nut that goes on the end of the handle and holds the blade in place. Figured I'd find one someday but never have. Then figured I'd make one and never got around to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Then figured I'd make one and never got around to it.

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I was going to suggest parroting one...by hand.