Unnumbered M 1903

At the NRA Convention in Phx. this weekend I saw a rifle that is unique to me.
A local, well regarded collector had the rifle in a heavy wooden display type case with a glass front. Painted a faded NAVY GRAY.
Rifle was all correct in parts and finish for a 1918 vintage M 1903.
Barrel was marked as S.A. 11-18
Included was an unissued sling still bundled and a correct M 1905 SA bayonet with no scabbard.
The collector indicated he had obtained the rifle years ago from the late dealer, Peter Cardone
Rifle and accoutrements were in near new original condition
The rifle was described as being on the line when the Armistice was announced It bore no plaques, engraving or other presentation information.
This sure looked right and would be one to have .
I apologize in advance to those who feel slighted because I have not included pictures. This was in according to the owners request.
What say any of you regarding this rifle ?? :cheers:

Hey Retread,

Maybe it's a very large "Lunchbox Special", or a "Hot" collectible. Don't think Springfield or RIA stopped production upon the announcement of the armistice. RIA continued production into the first quarter of 1919 and Springfield didn't stop until the late thirties. Those who know more will chime in for sure.

Regards and death to bad guys,

LB

"Lunchbox" special. I understand the garage sales in Springfield, MA. are special events.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RETREAD

At the NRA Convention in Phx. this weekend I saw a rifle that is unique to me.
A local, well regarded collector had the rifle in a heavy wooden display type case with a glass front. Painted a faded NAVY GRAY.
Rifle was all correct in parts and finish for a 1918 vintage M 1903.
Barrel was marked as S.A. 11-18
Included was an unissued sling still bundled and a correct M 1905 SA bayonet with no scabbard.
The collector indicated he had obtained the rifle years ago from the late dealer, Peter Cardone
Rifle and accoutrements were in near new original condition
The rifle was described as being on the line when the Armistice was announced It bore no plaques, engraving or other presentation information.
This sure looked right and would be one to have .
I apologize in advance to those who feel slighted because I have not included pictures. This was in according to the owners request.
What say any of you regarding this rifle ?? :cheers:

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The rifle you describe leaves too many questions unanswered.

(1) How did a receiver with no serial number managed to get heat treated and finished?

(2) Wartime security at Springfield Armory was extremely tight. How did someone manage to smuggle out a fully-assembled rifle?

(3) If the rifle was assembled for some dignitary, then why is there no name, supporting information, or documentation offered?

(4) With an 11-18 dated barrel, I am skeptical that the rifle was being assembled when the Armistice was announced, unless a worker went back and fetched a barrel with a November date. The Armistice took effect on 11-11-18 at 11:00 a.m. Barrel dates generally lagged behind final assembly by two weeks or more. So, barrels being fitted to rifles on 11-11-18 were dated 10-18.

I do not question the rifle owner's integrity. But, Mr. Cardone's integrity (or perhaps lack thereof) is already well known.

J.B.

Hey Steve,

Do you need a C&R at the garage sales...or just cash? That's a hoot! I'd like to see it. No offense Retread, seen this sort of stuff before, thanks for the info.

LB

I recall Gas Trap parts found in Springfield garage sales! Just my luck. Living on the Left Coast!

friend who lives in W Springfield, said his parents and grandparents worked at the armory, and remembers his home being heated with replaced krag and 1903 gun stocks from there all winter long when he was growing up. Said they burned very well....

Thanks agin to all the courteous replies and input from the membership. I have never been one to speak ill of the dead and it was nice to see others practicing that same restraint, . It sure looked like an armory piece, but again, who really knows ??

I remember talking to an oldtimer at Fort Lewis 15-20 years back. He told me that after the Korean War they heated their building with Carbine and Garand stocks from the huge post-Korean rebuild program in the mid-1950's. Now called the Log Center it was previously known as Mt. Rainier Depot. They still had the overhead system for moving rifles from the parkerizing tanks to the assembly area.

Sounds like just another story to explain something or other. An M1903 receiver with no number could easily have been a reject (who said it was hardened?) or the number was removed after issue for whatever reason.

I suspect the barrel with that date turned up first, then someone decided to make up a rifle, and a story.

Jim