Savage No.4 Mark 1 (T)

The earlier thread on Savage No.4 Mk1* sniper rifles had some interesting points. So as not to hijack that thread I thought I'd start a new one in which I'd like to show you a No.4 Mark 1 Savage that has been converted for sniper use.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254599922

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254599955

I bought this rifle about 4 years ago from an elderly gentleman that used to be a commercial airline pilot. He had bought it in 1967 from a place in New York and brought it down here to sunny Florida. It was shipped in its transit chest and still had this glued to it.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254599641

It also had his name and a receipt dated in early 1967. Knowing the gentleman and having the receipts makes me pretty confident that this is in the same condition it was in 1967 when he first acquired it.

The rifle does not conform to the markings of an accepted Holland and Holland conversion and I believe it to be one of the early Savage rifles converted at Enfield.In Peter Laidler's book on the .303 No.4 (T) Sniper Rifle, page 9 has a paragraph which reads "Enfield also converted the first of the Savage produced No.4 Mk 1 rifles and these are to be included in the Enfield converted total of 1,403." In addition, my rifle went through FTR in 1945 masking many of the tell tale signs of Enfield conversion - I submit it now to you for comment.

Receiver:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600414

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600446

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600472

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600541

The rifle does have the "Y" of US Property sticking out from the front pad but the pad itself was replaced in 1945 at the FTR.

Barrel date
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600670

Butt Stock scope serial number markings:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600773

The scored out number relates to a No.32 Mark 1. The new number relates to a No.32 Mark 3 fitted at FTR (my guess).

The wood forestock
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254600954

butt stock wrist
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254601016

Rear sight - savage mark 1
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...g?t=1254601061

The rifle has a longbranch front sight protector and a Viners front barrel band - probably fitted at FTR.

Finally, no S51 (as it wasn't converted at H&H) and no telltale "T" by the ejector screw............hmmm, that had me worried until I found this

"The British issued instructions (Army Council Instruction 399 of 1944, dated 31 May 1944) which addressed the fact that some rifles had left the factories without the (T) designator. Units were ordered to apply this locally. It follows that not all were 'caught' at unit or depot level."

Nice setup there!

That's one gorgeous rifle!

-Mark

Sweet rig.

I will have to look under some wood but I don't have any of the tells, no T or TR and no scope had never been mounted.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
Well done and nice photos too.

Mj1 I'm surprised to see the early cocking piece on your Savage T. Not that it's incorrect, it's just the first Savage No4 I've seen with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

Mj1 I'm surprised to see the early cocking piece on your Savage T. Not that it's incorrect, it's just the first Savage No4 I've seen with it.

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Lets not jack the mans post with my junk, he has a sweet set up here. I will share some pictures with you by PM.:thup:

Thanks for sharing Amtikulu, I didn't really look very close when I removed the cosmoline so one day I will go back. Again nice rig and I saved one of your photos. PM me some time you lucky dog.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

.......:beerchug:............

I have 0C160. It's a Holland and Holland conversion but was never completed with the addition of a telescope. The Savage "T" conversions I've had, (both Mk.1 and Mk.1*), are all lacking the BSA selection "TR" on the left of the butt socket and finish "T" on the left side of the body. They've all had the S51 stamped on the underside of the buttstock providing the butt was still original and unchanged.

Remember too that H&H didn't put many of the well recognized markings on their conversions until 1943. You can find the examiner's marks and that's about it. I have a 1941 BSA/H&H that is "as issued" and has never been through FTR. It's devoid of the S51, TR and finish T stamps because it never had them to start with. The examiner's marks are all in the right places and it's right as rain.

Any chances of posting some pic's of your '41? The only one I have seen was a picture of Roger's '41 receiver in early rebuild.

Thanks Brian. I agree with the points you make. All rifles set up by H&H in the early days tend to be atypically marked, regardless of from which factory they originated. I know our late mutual friend Bruce Gorton was of the opinion that all Savage rifles were set up by H&H & I am inclined to agree with him (though am open to persuasion if someone can come up with the documentation which clearly states RSAF Enfield's involvement). Like you, I've had a few Savage rifles through my hands & all of the early ones which retained their original butts had the S51 mark (which also tends to indicate that this mark was applied from pretty much the outset to the H&H conversions, with the T's TR's etc following on). What would REALLY impress me is if anyone out there has a Savage T with an Enfield examiner's mark on the top flat of the front body pad.............

Sorry Amatikulu, didn't meant to witter on.......your rifle is a peach. The first T I ever acquired (more years ago than I care to remember) was a 1942 Savage Mk1* & I spent several years secretly wondering if I'd been 'had' because it wasn't built on a BSA Shirley! How we have learnt over the years & have much to be grateful for to people like Ian S & Peter.

ATB

Brian,
I forgot to ask on the last posting, but does 0C 160 have a 6 groove barrel?

Still coming over next Spring??

ATB