Malfunctioning Winchester

Hi

Need some help! A freind has a Winchester that will fire the first round missfeed and not load the second round of the 8 round clip. If you cycle the bolt by hand it will run out the remainder of the clip in proper semiauto mode. If you load rifle with 7 it will run all out. This is 100% consistant with M2 ball ammo. He has run relaods thru the rifle with same action. Yet, when he fires 180 gr factory ammo it cycles thru the full clip of 8. Has he bent the op rod with the reloads or factory ammo? I had a friend who was knowedgable look at it and he replaced bullet guide and a couple of other parts in the clip well area to no avail. so we put back the original parts. He thought maybe the op rod? Any thoughts or suggestions??

Harry

"...factory ammo..." What brand? What bullet? The rifle doesn't like the factory 180 grain ammo. If the rifle works with milsurp and presumably his reloads, it's the ammo, not the rifle.
Tell him to try 165 grain ammo. A 165 will kill any game he cares to hunt and both the rifle and cartridge love 'em.

The bullet weight is not the problem here. Commercial loads use powders that are typically slower than what is good for the gas port and op-rod. Sounds like you have excessive gas system bleed-off somewhere. Check the Gas Plug for cracks and make sure the poppet valve isn't encrusted with carbon keeping it open, check the gas cylinder dia and piston diameters to see if they are within spec. Is the gun lubed with grease in the correct places? Is the op-rod rubbing on the ferrule? Is the op-rod spring the correct length?

Mike D

Mike D

Just to clarify the malfunction occurs with m2 Ball and with reloads to garand specs on 150 and 165 grain bullet loads. Yet with any brand of 180 grain factory ammo it works correctly. I think my post when I reread it may have been confusing in the way I phrased it. Hope this helps.
If it is gas system, why would it only fail to feed up the first round after firing and then work perfectly after recharging manually. One would think that if it fails once it should fail every time. Very puzzling indeed, But we will check out those areas recommended.

The cheapest way to check is swap parts from another rifle if you have it available. The op rod may well be to blame. I've used all weights of factory and lots of reloads through mine over the years before I found out they would destroy it. Yet it's undamaged. The reloads could have been the culprit but it's hard to say. After swapping parts you only have to replace one perhaps.

Is it not stripping the 1st round out of the clip (common, just tap the op-rod with the heel of your palm) or after successfully firing the 1st round, the 2nd round does not feed?

Mike D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harry aka Cowboy

Just to clarify the malfunction occurs with m2 Ball and with reloads to garand specs on 150 and 165 grain bullet loads. Yet with any brand of 180 grain factory ammo it works correctly. I think my post when I reread it may have been confusing in the way I phrased it. Hope this helps.
If it is gas system, why would it only fail to feed up the first round after firing and then work perfectly after recharging manually. One would think that if it fails once it should fail every time. Very puzzling indeed, But we will check out those areas recommended.

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When M2 and reloads will not work and the commercial 180 gr. does work, that means your rifle is right on the edge of functioning and not functioning. Commercial ammo is too hot and uses a powder with the wrong burning rate. You should not use it. The reason the second round will not feed and the remainder will, has to do with a full clip excerting more friction on the bolt as it moves to the rear. Again, this rifle is right on the edge of functioning. Changing the bullet guide has nothing to do with functioning. As stated above, the problem is probally in the gas system. That's where I would look.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mdoerner

Is it not stripping the 1st round out of the clip (common, just tap the op-rod with the heel of your palm) or after successfully firing the 1st round, the 2nd round does not feed?

Mike D

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It strips the first round perfectly and fails to feed up the second.

The maximum amount of spring tension is when a fully loaded clip is inserted in the rifle. the first round is fed by the operator, so you're having dramas w/ the first "automatic" cycle.

As per the fellows above, it's very most likely in the pressurized area of the operation- i.e., the front of the op rod at the piston proper, the gas cylinder, poppet valve (or plug), or a very loose fitting barrel/gas cylinder interface.

Otherwise something's binding, but that should show up as malfunctions at any time.

Something's "tired" out near the muzzle!

ETA The barrel isn't counterbored is it? That could lead to an unacceptably short dwell time for gas to enter the gas cylinder...

It's either in the gas system, op-rod spring or something is bent in the follower/follower arm area.

Mike D