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Picked up a super nice unmolested low serial numbered A4 today from a friend of mine. All original finish on all parts, never been through the rearsenal. Early Springfield stock, correct Redfield mount with Kollmorgen scope and rings installed sometime around 1951-53, barrel dated 3-43, serial number 3,411,xxx This had to have come from a navy vessal I would think.
Very interesting. How exactly is the scope marked if i might ask?
Is there something about the piece that leads you to believe it was on a ship?
Regards,
Jim
Jim
The reason I think it was on a navy vessal is because of the immaculate condition. Its odd that this early of a gun would last 2 years on the field and still look this good. Most of the navy guns would sit in the ships armory and only come out from time to time. Almost all of the guns used in the field were rebuilt and thats why everyone you see on Gunbroker are parkerized. This one was never sent back in for a rebuild. All they did is upgrade the scope and rings as the gun required nothing else. Again this is my option of where it came from. I just cant imagine this being on the battlefield and retaining this condition for two years.
The scope is marked 4x and a 11934 serial number on the side. Around the rear optic it has Bear cub, Kollmorgen optical corp. Northhamton Mass, pat pending, made in the USA.
the scope and rings were likely added by someone other then the military,
the 4 power cub was made 1956-1959.
the Kollmorgan 4 power scope used by the military had target style turrets.
mostly used on M1 Garand sniper rifles for a short time as a replacement.
had the military used that scope on that rifle, they likely would have used the right hight rings, rather then grind a notch into the handguard.
a Weaver K4-60B would be a closer choice of a scope used during that time frame..
many A4,s were used by PD,s and other branches of the Gov, security forces, many had K4,s..im not saying that they didnt ever get a Kollmorgan, just doubt that they would use a Bear cub.
also, the base looks to be one made by the Lyman gunsight, as i dont see a R or Redfield..could just be the picture, rings are also made by Lyman.
heres a real GI issue Kollmorgan scope sitting on a Garand sniper rifle.
31, Thanks for the reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pickemup
Regards,
Jim
Chuck
You are correct on most of what you wrote no arguement there. But from 1951-1954 at the beginning of the Korean war the government had a non contract (procurement) from Kollmorgen for OD green finished 4x bearcub scopes. If you look in the standard catalogue of military firearms under garand variants the scope is there. Also the mount and rings are Redfield in the proper blue finish. The rings are the correct 26 mm. Also I not sure but Ive never seen elevated Redfield 26mm rings, thats probably why they ground a notch in the handguard. My buddy and a huge A4 collector has a variant just like this in his collection as well. This is a military variant early 50's.
the base, and rings should be parkerized. the 2 piece rings made for the M84 were supplied by Lyman, not Redfield, more missinformation from a couple books.
Kollmorgan marked Bearcubs were not made until 1956..
Kollmorgan Stith Bearcubs were made previous to that time..
Kollmorgan commercial scopes 2 2/4, 4 and 6 power were available in greygreen finish, that had nothing to do with a military contract.
Redfield purchased Kollmorgan in 1960, and used that design for many years after.
youll see tons of standard Kollmorgan scopes being sold as GI or USMC do to the grey finish,,even some with some nefty U.S. stamps on the turret caps, just isnt so..
for the record, all the real GI Kollmorgan scopes iv seen, pictures or with my own eyes are black in color, not grey, or green, some were even painted black over old black finish, and had no US markings.
the Kollmoran scope pictured on that Garand is the real deal...and the only one used by the military..no matter how bad we want those nice green grey scope to be GI,...they arent...
could they have been used by another branch of Gov? or state police? maybe.
for the record,
the barrel, receiver, base, rings, safety are the ONLY things parkerized, the rest of the parts will be black oxide finished,,,{blued}.
if your receiver, base, and rings are blued, it was done by someone other then the military.
Chuck
All my parts are either the correct black parkerized or blued. This gun hasn't been mess with. Early guns have different aspects than the later guns. I value your option and respect what you say. But im going to have to disagree on some of your points. Most of the information I get is from field armorers and vets and they have personal experience with these firearms. Your correct the stuff in the books aren't all correct and im not going by all thats in them. I will try to get more information on the scope but the bear cub was made before 56 thats one point i dissagree with.
It's a non-standard arrangement and outside the "normal" parameters for what is usually seen. That certainly doesn't make it wrong, but it doesn't make it right either. I can put blued parts back on any arsenal or field reworked item. I can swap and add scopes too. There is simply no way to know for certain whether this is "as issued" or subsquently made up since the items are not serial-ed to each other. What matters is that you are satisfied; and if the time comes, that the prospective buyer is also satisfied. I think in the case of the latter, a good number will be skeptical.