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I know it is not a Lee-Enfield, but someone's general knowledge might explain how a DWM Chile Mauser type 95, cut down to make a carbine, with no national emblem, comes to have British civilian (London) proof marks. Please take a look at my posting on the Mauser forum. Maybe one of you can help!
Patrick
My best guess would be a Boer War bringback, the "ST"monogram being the original owner's initials....but it's just that, a guess.
Those London proof marks are of a style that was used until the 1980s, so the rifle could have passed through the UK trade at any time post-WW2.
Yes, but according to Wirnsberger (P107), after 1925 it was compulsory to stamp "not British made" on the barrel. Hence the later date limit.
Patrick
I don't have a copy of Wirnsberger, but AFAIK there has never been a requirement to stamp "not British made" as part of civilian proof - in fact i don't think I've ever seen it on a UK civilian proofed foreign arm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
"Not English Make" and an encircled military mark was once a very old method of marking a foreign weapon for British military use, but those marks have no relevance to civilian proof, which your rifle displays.
The type of marks on your rifle were used by London Proof between 1925 and 1989, when the pressure indication was changed to Bar from Tons, and the cartridge length to millimetres from inches.
Thunderbox wrote:
"I don't have a copy of Wirnsberger, but AFAIK there has never been a requirement to stamp "not British made" as part of civilian proof - in fact i don't think I've ever seen it on a UK civilian proofed foreign arm."
I did indeed make a slight error. The text was not "not British made" but "Not English Make".
Apart from the fact that Wirnsberger's book is worth having, the information can be dug out of the internet if you have the time. Do a search with the string:
British proof marks "Not English Make"
and you will find enough examples. For an example of a UK civilian proofed foreign arm, please see
http://www.coltautos.com/1908vpbp.htm
The requirement to apply this text was in force from 1925 to 1955. So I still reckon the rifle was proofed between 1904 and 1925.
On the butt, right side, there is also a very faint stamp about 3/8" diameter, showing the number 20 within a circle. I agree with jrhead75 that the monogram is most likely personal initials. Which leaves the symbol in front of the number as about the only means of identification. Any thoughts on this?
Patrick
The marks on the Colt appear to be military view marks, rather than civilian proof.
Is this an example of your rifle? :-
Firearm Technical Trivia, December 1999
"The marks on the Colt appear to be military view marks, rather than civilian proof."
Thunderbox, you are absolutely right. Back to the drawing board!
Thanks for the link. If you look closely at my pics, you will see that the Spanish carbine is not what I have.
I had a long chat with a knowledgeable gentleman from Hermann Historica today. And also found several examples on the internet with the mystery symbol in front of the number. It seems that I will have to upgrade my Ball to the 4th edition, which now has a section on ZAR.
I appear to have the following: an example of the first series (no series letter) of 93-based full-length Mausers ordered by ZAR from DWM.
What follows is, of course, just a plausible interpretation - it could have been different:
The rifle came into the hands of someone who wanted a carbine.
The Boers were largely a mounted force, and carbines were preferable on horseback. (Apparently the Boers also liked to remove the sight protectors from the carbines, as one in a hurry one could easily aim over the "ear" instead of the foresight blade)
So "Mynheer S.T." had his rifle converted into a carbine. And cut the crest on the right side. (Or maybe he was ín a commando called "S.T."?)
At some stage the rifle was captured or turned in after the end of hostilities, when it was "acquired" by someone who took it back to the UK as his private property, and had it proofed.
Somehow it made its way to Germany, without acquiring the importer's stamp one usually sees on imported rifles - even on re-imports of German origin.
As many forum contributors have written on various occasions - if only they could talk!
And now I have it, and am going to find out how well it can (still) shoot.
Thanks to you all for your comments!
Patrick