Savage No 4T

I don't read much here about the Savage No 4Ts.

All I think I know is that not many were made,
and that those were early on in the war.

So a few questions.

1, How many were made ? and from to dates / serial Nos.
2, What markings did they have ? and where ?
3. Who did the work ?
4. What scopes were used ? i.e No32 mk1 / 2 or 3 ? or another ? when first built.
5. Were they sent out with the same kit ? i.e. boxes, tins, etc.
6. Any other info you may think interesting.

I hope you all had a good summer, and loosed off plenty of rounds.
I didn't manage to get to the range for 2 months......:crying:
due to work and child care.
Just bought the twins ear defenders that fit and they enjoy putting on and keeping on
so I can now take them down the range.
They just need to grow a little before they can shoot the Enfields,
they have worked out the business end on there own,
and know it hurts when they drop the but on their feet.
They spend many a happy time mixing up all my ammunition
when they get into the gun room. :madsmile:
They are only three and a half.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by read6737

1, How many were made ? and from to dates / serial Nos.

No one knows for sure how many were made. Some No4MkI rifles were made up and fitted with scopes, but darn few.

The largest majority of those encountered are the No4MkI*. These are all dated 1942. The serial numbers frun from a low in the 12Cxxxx block to a high in the low numbered 15Cxxxx block.


2, What markings did they have ? and where ?

I assume you mean the typical "sniper markings". The No4MkI* rifles that I have seen usually have the S 51 marking on the buttstock, and the last 4 of the rifle serial number on the butstock tenon. Most do not have the TR, T or other markings generally associated with the type.

3. Who did the work ?

Holland and Holland.

4. What scopes were used ? i.e No32 mk1 / 2 or 3 ? or another ? when first built.

When first built, the vast majority of the No4MkI* rfles were not fitted with telescopic sites.

5. Were they sent out with the same kit ? i.e. boxes, tins, etc.

Transit boxes, yes, leather sling, yes. No to scope, scope mount and tin box for the scope.

6. Any other info you may think interesting.

In reference to the No4MkI* series, which I have the most familiarity with, the other big thing is that the majority of them were rebarrelled in 1945 with Enfield marked 5 groove barrels.

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Hope this helps.

I don't recall the 1945 barrels being mentioned before! Someting you've seen, or referenced from where?

We've had a couple of longish threads on the subject- one was about this time last year, I think.

Some definitely made it into the system, I even saw (but stupidly didn't buy) one that became an L42a1.

I am asking as my friend bought a savage 4 T a few years ago.
Not sure of the date etc but it did have a T very lightly struck above the serial N°.
Cannot think of any other markings, I will have a good look at it as soon as I can and take a few pics.
Any requests as to what to photograph?
It has pads, cheek rest, and came with the choice of a 32 mk1or mk3 scope. he chose the mk 3.

I would generally agree with Hal, although I suspect most Mk1 conversions (1941 & 1942 dated & usually in the 0C serial range) were scoped up with Mk1 scopes. The Mk1* rifles are somewhat of a conundrum; many of them were probably the late (1945 or even possibly 1946 end of contract) conversions that were issued without scopes. However, some Mk1* rifles were most definitely scoped up - the ones I have seen or owned looked to me to have been lumped in amongst the early conversions (ie with the Mk1 rifles converted in 1942). It seems some at least, of the later batch of rifles converted (Mk1*'s) may have had their 2 groove barrels swapped for 5 groovers, as previously stated. Interestingly though, I have seen a few that were not, & have also seen what appear to be genuine 1941 Maltby rifles that retained their 2 groove tubes......so never say never & never say always, with Lee Enfields!

Shame you live in central France.....I'm leaving for the hexagon tonight, but sha'n't get any further down than The Somme. Back in time for work on Tuesday, alas!

ATB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by read6737

I am asking as my friend bought a savage 4 T a few years ago.
Not sure of the date etc but it did have a T very lightly struck above the serial N°.
Cannot think of any other markings, I will have a good look at it as soon as I can and take a few pics.
Any requests as to what to photograph?
It has pads, cheek rest, and came with the choice of a 32 mk1or mk3 scope. he chose the mk 3.

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Photograph everything! :D:D

I've also had the later Mk.1* rifles with British walnut forends installed during the "T" conversion. Apparently some of the Savage forends weren't up to Holland & Holland specifications.

Yup,the Savage No4MkI* T rifles are quite the puzzle. Doubt we will ever know the whole story.

Regards the 1945 rebarrel, mine is done so and alt least 6 others that I have seen in person, and about 10 others that I have info on.

I will be be able to tell you more about the Savage in about 10 days and post a few pics.
All I can say about it is there are no Holland and Holland marks on it at all,
I thought that Long branch did the conversions for Savage any way.
I think it is a MK1. not a MK1*. but not 100% sure.
There is a T stamped although faint on the side of the block.
That is it till I see it a gain.