1939 K98 story/issue/info request

So my good friend Dan has (2) K98 Mausers his Grand Father sent back from WWII. Grandpa says that he took them off the Goebels Treasure train after he got out of The Battle of The Bulge after he Stormed Omaha Beach. Dan, is of course, very proud of his Grand Father's and his War stoires. The Mausers are nice, though they seem to have the GI Duffle Bag treatment and are missing the upper stocks etc.

Dan decides he will like to shoot the 1939 K98 and so proceeds to buy surplus ammo at the local gun show. He arrives at the range and proceeds to shoot it. All seems to be going well with all of that until he comes over to my station and says "Dude, my Mauser like back fired or something. I got powder burned on my hands and there is like black carbon all over the magazine". He agreas to stop shooting the iron.

After other guns are shot and a good day is had we go to inspect his rifle. He has cleaned up the carbon and discarded the case so no clues there. It looks normal. Since we were shooting the Mosin also he had Windex which was sprayed liberally down the bore and into the action/receiver. Nothing poured out of the barrel. I hand him my cleaning rod to probe the bore. He slides it in until it hits a bullet lodged 2/3 of the way down the barrel.

So we call it a day. Dan gets a 1/4" steel rod at Home Depot and proceeds to hammer the bullet out of the muzzle end of the rifle. I've seen the bullet. Typical old looking ammo on the tip and sides however the but end of the boat tail is just black and course and obviously corroded. I ask to see the rest of the ammo. Sweet Jesus I cannot believe soemone sold this much less my buddy tried to shoot it. Steel cased. Seriously rusted/corroded. Some of them were filed down and made into flat points and soem were filed into dum dums... I tell him he needs to bury that **** in the forest and get a second opinion on his next ammo purchase.

I assume that the round that went off so poorly had gotten corroded inside the case to such an extend that it only pushed the bullet so far and then caused the propellent to flash back through the action. I do not know anything about Mausers. I did not see a "Hatcher Hole" like i have on my 1903a3. So my question is. Does a K98 Mauser have such a back pressure relief opening? Is his action going to be cracked now? What should he expect?

Did an accident cause this or was he born that way...Seriously

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Originally Posted by rich v

Did an accident cause this or was he born that way...Seriously

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Some folks have larger hearts than brains... Any advice on preventing a greater faux pas will be appreciated along with good natured ribbing.

there are holes in the bolt body to allow gas to escape in cases like that. that's why the magazine was covered in the powder. tthe holes did their job. the receiver should be fine, but if we wanted to be sure he could have a gunsmith check it for cracks.

more importantly, however, i'd imagine his bore is royally FUBAR now. that's a shame. that's why most people don't fire veteran bring backs.

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Originally Posted by BubbaTheKid

Does a K98 Mauser have such a back pressure relief opening? Is his action going to be cracked now? What should he expect?

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Of course it has a pressure relief opening vent hole! In fact, it has two!
See Kuhnhausen "Mauser Bolt Acrtions" P. 24 for photos and a description. And it has demonstrated that the gas vent holes in the Mauser bolt really do their job! The action is unlikely to be cracked - Mauser receivers were made with case-hardened steel that will stretch rather than crack. But it is possible that the bolt lugs have been set back, and a chance that the barrel has been ringed and is now useless. On the other hand, it is also possible that the ancient powder had degenerated to produce a squib load, the case failed to expand properly to fill the chamber (hence the carbonized deposit) and it is perfectly OK. The rifle will have to be checked by a gunsmith.

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Originally Posted by kar98k

more importantly, however, i'd imagine his bore is royally FUBAR now. that's a shame. that's why most people don't fire veteran bring backs.

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Maybe, maybe not, as explained above. But on the last point, "that's why most people don't fire veteran bring backs" I cannot follow you. The fault was most definitely not in the rifle, which has demonstrated the effectiveness of the vent holes, but in the shooter. A person who, if the ammo was so obviously defective as has been described, acted in a way that I consider to be completely irresponsible. This is one case where I am relieved that German gun law requires applicants to pass a course on handling guns and safety precautions before they can acquire a licence. Of course, nothing is perfect and some will still get through who should not be entrusted with a water pistol!

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Originally Posted by BubbaTheKid

I tell him he needs to bury that **** in the forest

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No, it should be dismantled to ensure that it cannot fall into other hands.

Patrick
:wave:

Look for the following clues: Was the case split? Was the primer pierced?

If neither of these effects is visible, and the case is sooty from the neck back, then it was a squib load, the case failed to expand, and the rifle is possibly* OK. And if the shooter did not even look at the case, then for heaven's sakes send him on a course to acquire some basic knowledge, in the interest of safety.

Patrick

*That was a "possibly", not a guarantee! It must be checked over.

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Maybe, maybe not, as explained above. But on the last point, "that's why most people don't fire veteran bring backs" I cannot follow you. The fault was most definitely not in the rifle, which has demonstrated the effectiveness of the vent holes, but in the shooter.

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i wasn't blaming the rifle. i meant that if a veteran bring back is fired and gets damaged, it's lost a significant bit of collector value and historical value

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Originally Posted by BubbaTheKid

Some folks have larger hearts than brains... Any advice on preventing a greater faux pas will be appreciated along with good natured ribbing.

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BUBBA, i really didn't mean any disrespect of your shooting buddy but come on ; firearms and ammunition are not toys, knowledge about each particular firearm and each round of ammo that you are planning to shoot should be researched and checked out if you or yours don't know what to look for; as demons can hide in old milsurp ammo and firearms, but you described that the ammo was very visiably corroded and he still shot it > Come on get informed before shooting that first round before someone gets seriously hurt.. Knowledge sir !

You guys really need to find that cartridge case or the loaded ammo. Are you certain he was firing 8mm Mauser ammo? Something makes me wonder.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Look for the following clues: Was the case split? Was the primer pierced?

If neither of these effects is visible, and the case is sooty from the neck back, then it was a squib load, the case failed to expand, and the rifle is possibly* OK. And if the shooter did not even look at the case, then for heaven's sakes send him on a course to acquire some basic knowledge, in the interest of safety.

Patrick

*That was a "possibly", not a guarantee! It must be checked over.

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Hi All,
Thank you for your opinions and insight. I saw my Buddy over Easter and asked some more questions. Sadly, the case was discarded at the range. It was described as being intact & not split, covered in soot as was the action and remaining rounds below it in the magazine. The primer was not observed/noted. I am assuming a squib round happened but will insist upon inspecting the rifle myself and encourage that a gunsmith do so also. Any advice on what to look for as to ringed barrel as well as how to inspect the lugs for being "set back" will be appreciated. I snapped a photo of the slug for your review. It appears extremely corroded at the boat tail which leads me to suspect that the powder was deteriorated and not energetic enough to propel the bullet out of the bore which caused it to back fire etc.

http://s1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/BubbaTheKid/