USMC M1903A1 / 1941 Sniper accuracy requirments

Does anybody know if there were any formal USMC accuracy requirements (similar to British and German practice) for determining whether a rifle met the accuracy demands for conversion to an 1941 Sniper Rifle.

I am aware of the debate that some were converted USMC Shooting Team NM rifles but have read that this would not have been sufficient of these to meet the numbers needed.

Apart from tolerances on barrels of NM rifles, I have not been able to find any accuracy requirements for this designation either.

Can anybody help (preferably with some docimentary confirmation)?

Thanks

Andy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OxfordAndy

I am aware of the debate that some were converted USMC Shooting Team NM rifles but have read that this would not have been sufficient of these to meet the numbers needed.

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Andy. Per memo from QM USMC PHIladelphia to QM USMC dated 4 July 1942 - 1047 Rifles m1903 National match and Special Target held at Philadelphia Depot.

Per memo from QM USMC to Commandant USMC dated 20 April 1945 "1750 Telescopes, Sighting 8x Unertl delivered under the contract. As of 20 April 1945 975 Telescopes remained in depot stocks"
(The last item suggests about 800~ scopes were assembled to rifles. The remainder were then subsequently used in Korea, Vietnam, given to the navy for mine clearance or sold as surplus.)

There is a lot more to the story:
i would suggest: "The '03 Springfield Era" (2003) Clark Campbell
"The USMC Scout Sniper in WW2 and Korea" Peter Senich, Palladin
For completists there is (or used to be) a package of USMC sniping correspondence covering programs from 1940 to around 1953 available thru Springfield Research Service. i have it but the most important documents are also reproduced or cited in Senich or Campbell. Also some of the copies are all but illegible.

Regards,

Jim

Jim, many thanks.

I'm waiting on a copy of the Senich book to arrive but my smith and I are testing a couple of possible donor rifles that we have on loan this weekend (sooner than I had expected) so I am trying to find out in advance fo the test what he needs to see from the rifles.

I've gone through both Brophy and Poyer but wasn't able to see anything mentioned about test grouping to select suitable rifles, only that they meet NM specs which seem to only mention various engineering tolerances.

Cheers

Andy

The NM rifles were targeted before they were released for sale or issue. The rifle came with the star gauge record card and the test target.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JGaynor

i would suggest:

"The USMC Scout Sniper in WW2 and Korea" Peter Senich, Palladin
Regards,

Jim

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Jim

This book arrived this morning - I've had a look through and, although it is mentioned in one of the chapters that rifles were tested for accuracy/grouping as part of the selection process, I can (on first run through) see no mention of the required standard to be achieved.

Cheers

Andy

Although I have no specific documentation on USMC sniper rifle accuracy requirements, I would be very skeptical that the requirements were any tighter than those for a National Match rifle. One must understand that sniper rifles were mass-produced. Contrary to popular belief, they were not individual custom-built, hand-selected, and tweaked/tuned. Targeting merely served to verify that the rifles satisfied accuracy requirements and that nothing was amiss, i.e., warped stock, crooked barrel, loose screws, etc. If a rifle failed targeting, it was sent back for repair/rework. The process was very simple.

There was no pre-selection process. National Match rifles were requisitioned from USMC Rifle Team Equipment (RTE) and converted to sniper rifles. The conversion process included re-gauging, re-barreling, re-bolting, and re-stocking as required. Where shortages occurred, service rifles were used. A final targeting ensured that each rifle was in order and suitable for issue.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

JB, thanks for that.

I have not seen any information on proof of groupling abilities of the NM rifles - only specifications/dimensions for barrels and tolerances.

I have seen a number of references to acccuracy being tested by the USMC. For example this from Peter Senich's "USMC Scout Sniper, World War II & Korea":

"Mst Gunnery Sgt Harold E Johnson, USMC provided a brief description of ordnance activities involving the selection of M1903 sniper rifles:

Newly unpacked rifles were placed in a machine rest and fired for group sizes. The rofles that met certain requirements were set aside for conversion to sniper rifles. These usually, but not always , had star-gauged barrels. However not all barrels marked as such shot all that well. Some ordinary barrels were found to shoot just as well, and sometimes better than those that were marked."

He goes on to say that after selection and conversion:

"The rifles were re-tested for accuracy with the Unertl scope in place. if they didn't meet performance standards they were rejected and re-converted into service rifles."

So the mystery remains......what were those standards?

The facts speak for themselves. The archaeological record does not match Sgt. Johnson's description. I sense the presence of a tobacco smoke enema.

I probably have some National Match rifle accuracy specifications. They differed each year, depending on the ammunition used.

J.B.