Swiss long rifles v2.0

I won several of the long Swiss rifles and a K31 at an auction the other day. One of the long ones was this P series 1911. I do not know what is up with the bluing. These are the auction pics.

The stock has a little different profile than the usual 1911 stock. Is that the way the "P" series came, or is that an owner customized?

Silver scroll plaque to right cheekpiece marked ''E. Merz, Bern''. Guisan advises that this rifle was sold by H.Schwarz Waffen Bern. Hans August Schwarz was a gun smith in Bern from 1873 till he died in 1945. Guisan also graciously provided some contact information for the Merz family in Bern

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12/p1911-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/p1911c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/p1911b-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/p1911a-1.jpg

I am not sure that it is a P-series No. 11360 (or is it 11380?). Some rifles of various models were made for non-military customers, and these had a P in front of the number, but the numbering from G11 examples stops at 5948 according to Poyer "The Swiss Magazine Loading Rifles". Furthermore, the P is missing in front of the number on the barrel. If it was part of the original number, then it should surely be stamped there as well. Yes?/No?/Maybe? :dunno:

The P more commonly indicates that it was sold into private ownership (apparently it was quite common for Swiss soldiers to keep their rifles after discharge from the service. As this was not a part of the number, a single P on the receiver was sufficient to label the rifle as no longer being military property.

Of course, I may be wildly off course, the book may be out of date in this respect, and Guisan certainly knows his stuff. Pending clarification from him, I think that this is either a non-military rifle in a previously unknown number range or a G89/96/11, i.e a G89 (the number would date it to 1892) converted to an 1889/96 and then converted again to a 89/96/11, still bearing the original number, and then finally sold into private ownership, hence the P stamped in front of the number. and if someone took the trouble to fit a new stock, then it was probably an outstanding shooter.

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Originally Posted by Calfed

Guisan advises that this rifle was sold by H.Schwarz Waffen Bern.

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How can one deduce that? Is it marked or recorded somewhere? It would be interesting to see a close-up of the markings on the receiver ring.

:wave:
Patrick

P.S: Just had a check on the Swiss Rifle forum. Guisan says there are many more private-production numbers than in the book. Fine, but how does he know who sold it? There seems to be some writing on the left side of the bolt-cover portion of the receiver. What does it say? I feel that we have not got the full story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calfed

I do not know what is up with the bluing.

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I think it must have been removed deliberately. It is gone in places where it would not normally be rubbed off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

P.S: Just had a check on the Swiss Rifle forum. Guisan says there are many more private-production numbers than in the book. Fine, but how does he know who sold it? There seems to be some writing on the left side of the bolt-cover portion of the receiver. What does it say? I feel that we have not got the full story.

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If you look on the receiver, just above the serial number there is an inscription that appears to be "H Schartz". It is hard to make out, but apparently Guisan is familiar with the stamp.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...19111b12-1.jpg

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would remove the bluing. Unless it was a misguided cleaning attempt using a chlorinated cleaning solution.

I'll post close ups when the rifle arrives. All I have for now are the auction pictures..

The Swiss rifles arrived and I got a chance to take a few pics and give them a good going over before they went into his safe for a 10 day "cooling off" period. Rifle is in very good shape, but the bluing is thin in the places where it isn't gone altogether. Odd.

Guisan called it..."H Schwarz" "3Bern7"

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../12/0041-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../12/0031-1.jpg

The inset plaque on the buttstock is much nicer then it looks in the picture...got some reflection from the flash.

pure io possiedo un lungo mat. 347124 appena posso invio le voto ora sto studiando il modo di mettere l'ottica sul ricevitore utilizzando la scima se i9l tutto funzionerà inviero disegni tecnici
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