Enfield Envoy

Greetings All:wave:,
Below are pictures of two Envoys in my collection.

The first is a early Envoy with a serial number of E10. It is fitted with a Parker Hale 5D rear and PH Matchmaker front sight. The finish on this one is almost a satin oil(?) type finish. I wonder if this is the wood finish that was applied to the early rifles? Additionally, there is a hand stop rail attached to the fore end but the serial number was not milled out of the wood.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...iXpcrxOl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...k4teOmil-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...xtUMZ8Jl-1.jpg

My second one is serial number E329 and marked PALMA MATCH BISLEY 1970 and proofed at both 19T and 20T. It is stamped REGULATED BY FULTON on the receiver ring and has a PH5C rear sight with a John Wilkes front globe sight. The finish is a glossy yellow birch unlike the earlier one. It's a nice piece with an interesting history. One of our members was kind enough to inform me who bought the rifle after the competition, and I contacted the Bisley NRA museum with that information. Unfortunately, that person's name was not on the 1970 match team roster:( So unless I can find out some other way, I will never find out who shot it originally


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...EK7blOFl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...C580Wbjl-1.jpg

Best Always,
Michael

Very envious. You have two, yet I cant't seem to find one locally in Australia.

Hopefully all comes to those who wait.

Paul

Very nice...
Great pictures. I hope to own one of these one day. Never seen one for sale, just yet. Any idea how many are floating around in the USA?
Total numbers produced? Total number of Palma rifles?

Total produced at Enfield are 526, Total Palma Match rifles converted are 70, these rifles were just taken from the overall 526 in random order, then sent to Fultons at Bisley for "Tweeking".

I don't remember seeing that 20 Ton Special Proof (?) before.

Pretty sure mine only has 19T and it's in the 300s too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

I don't remember seeing that 20 Ton Special Proof (?) before.

Pretty sure mine only has 19T and it's in the 300s too.

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Envoys were not necessarily sold in numerical order - it seems Enfield built them, put them on a stock shelf, and then sent them out at random to proof and onto dealers. When Fultons had to collect 70 Envoys to prepare for the Palma Match, the numbers range across the entire production run.

UK rifles have to be reproofed whenever a pressure-bearing component is changed or altered. 20T could be a sign of a replacement barrel or bolthead, or even just a belt-and-braces proof carried out because the original proof marks were not clear.

That 20T mark is the military proof, done at the factory and not a commercial proof. This question was raised in a technical instruction because some L39/42 parts/bodies were marked 19T and later we got bolts and boltheads through marked 20T! (see bottom right photo of body marked 19T and bolt marked 19T AND 20T) Apparently it was the 'same' but done to a different method under instructions from Cold Meese (the Military proofing authority centre). That's as I recall it and it might not be strictly correct - so forgive me - but it was something like that. So far as Armourers were concerned, it cleared the air and we could use both markings. Maybe Ensci who was involved in the 19T/20T project could comment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

That 20T mark is the military proof, done at the factory and not a commercial proof. This question was raised in a technical instruction because some L39/42 parts/bodies were marked 19T and later we got bolts and boltheads through marked 20T! (see bottom right photo of body marked 19T and bolt marked 19T AND 20T) Apparently it was the 'same' but done to a different method under instructions from Cold Meese (the Military proofing authority centre). That's as I recall it and it might not be strictly correct - so forgive me - but it was something like that. So far as Armourers were concerned, it cleared the air and we could use both markings. Maybe Ensci who was involved in the 19T/20T project could comment

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It must have been an initiative to bring the military and civilian proof marks into line, as the "20T" mark appears on many non-military rifles (that is unless ITDU had a side-line in knocking out ratty old target rifles......):


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...00698859-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...00698860-1.jpg


Looks like London proof used a slightly different presentation:


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...00698861-1.jpg

I don't want to be abrupt TBox, but you aren't comparing like with like or reading the thread............ Look at the photo I referred to as opposed to the obvious BNP mark.

Of course ITDU didn't have a side line.......... whatever next.

Sorry to disagree with Peter on this one but,
The 20t SP or "special proof" mark on the Bolt, Acion and barrel are a Birmingham Proof House mark. This was and still is applied at the customers request, normally because the owner wants to use non standard (homeloaded) or other commercial ammo with heavier bullets than the old 144gn!
On the barrel mark directly under the SP mark is a coded year marking, two crossed flags with a three digit number and leter combo! Decipher this and then contact Birmingham Proof house and they can tell you what year this was done!