Cleaning the black paint off an Ishapore 2A

Having just picked up an Ishapore Enfield 2A from AIM Surplus I was looking for tips on removing the black paint that was liberally brushed on all the metal parts years ago.

There were multiple suggestions on this or that chemical and proper use for same to strip it so I started looking around this morning to see what was available locally. Reading the instructions of a bunch of them, I came across something that really looked promising.

It's called Motzenbockers "Lift Off" and is designed to remove graffiti from buildings, concrete, metal signs and various other objects. It's citrus oil based, water soluble, biodegradable and not overly toxic. A quart spray bottle costs about 8 bucks American here in Kansas. Figuring I wouldn't go broke trying the stuff, I bought a bottle.

I tried it on the front sight first - sprayed a little, waited and then wiped it off like the directions said. It removed a layer of the paint, and because it contains citrus oil, it had the added benefit of penetrating the layer of caked on cosmolene to get at the paint.

It's not the do-all, end-all of paint removers, but it doesn't appear to be overly aggressive and it will remove the paint with patience and some elbow-grease. It will take a number of cycles of apply, wait and brush with a brass brush plus wipe it all off and start again to completely remove the paint.

After finally getting all the paint off the barrel and knox form, I rinsed the metal with hot water and once that evaporated I applied a liberal coat of oil. The metal appears to have been parkerized and certainly looks a lot better with that ugly black paint gone!

Realizing I'm a newbie here, I mentioned this to Badger in a PM and he suggested I post the info here. Hopefully it will be helpful info.

One thing to consider.

Not all Enfields are painted in hardware store black paint. It would appear that the 2A/2A1 series rifles started life parkerized and at some later point, someone brushed on the cheap black paint we see today, probably as rust-preventative.

This paint does coem off with a little effort as you have found out.

On otehr guns, however, the black paint is Suncorite. In those cases, the paint is meant to stay on as it IS the finish. Suncorite is self-phosphating, so you could think that the surface underneath is parkerized, but it is not. It's actually part of the paint coating you are seeing on those guns.

I can honestly say, as a collector, that I do not think suncoriting should be removed any more than it already has. And yes, in my younger days, I did remove that from a gun or two as well - something I regret today.

I have also see na few 2A/2A1 rifles with real suncorite in lieu of the hardware store paint. If you have real suncorite, paint stripper won't take it off too easily - perhaps tes in a discrete location with a small dab of chemical to see if you have cheap paint or decent suncorite finish :)

Hope that helsp a little!~

Thanks to Claven2 for pointing out the fact that some of the Ishy's were finished with Suncorite. Mine definitely was not, as the paint comes off nicely with that "Lift Off" stuff.

Since Suncorite is a self-phosphating type finish, a citrus based paint stripper should hardly touch it if at all.

I'm really on two different thoughts on that black paint.

1- It was a cheap and easy fix for ho hum finishes put on for resale purposes when the rifles were surplussed. I have a NoI MkIII from 30 years ago and couple of martinis from the same period, picked up at Lever Arms, that were blued, not painted. It seems to be a recent thing.

2- It is a legitimate substitute standard finish and shouldn't be touched, or left on if the rifle isn't going to be shot, but collected, to enhance value further down the road.

There is little if any information anywhere.

The same thing can be said for the POF No4 Mk 2 rifles that have recently become available. Of the several I've viewed, they are all covered in a matte brown finish. I mean covered completely, other than the bore and chamber.
They all have numbers painted on the fore or buttstock, underneath this coating. I really wonder if this is an anti glare finish or a preservative that has hardened to a laquer type finish and is meant to be removed.

Not trying to hijack your thread, and I apologise if you feel I have. I will delete it if you feel trespassed upon.

I feel that your question pertains to the information we both require and would really appreciate more feedback to both of our questions. As of now I haven't seen any real evidence but a lot of conjecture from some very knowledgeable people.

bearhunter

I have several rifles from the Indian sub-continent and looking at the examples, I only have the oil based paint on the 2A and 2A1's. No 1 Mk 3's and an early 2A rifles have a suncorite finish.

While this is far from proper research, I'm thinking that the oil based paint was applied in the 60's onwards on the 2A series of rifles and refurbishments done in India. I haven't seen any other finish except on Pakistan produced rifles.

I believe the phosphate and oil based black paint were the original finish on post 60's Indian rifles.

As an aside, Brownells sells alumahyde matt black and it closely approximates a suncorite finish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhunter

The same thing can be said for the POF No4 Mk 2 rifles that have recently become available. Of the several I've viewed, they are all covered in a matte brown finish. I mean covered completely, other than the bore and chamber.
They all have numbers painted on the fore or buttstock, underneath this coating. I really wonder if this is an anti glare finish or a preservative that has hardened to a laquer type finish and is meant to be removed.

Not trying to hijack your thread, and I apologise if you feel I have. I will delete it if you feel trespassed upon.

I feel that your question pertains to the information we both require and would really appreciate more feedback to both of our questions. As of now I haven't seen any real evidence but a lot of conjecture from some very knowledgeable people.

bearhunter

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Hey bearhunter, you aren't hijacking the thread. It's a legitimate question and I've gotten a lot of good information from quite a few people both here on this board and on the Surplusrifleforum.com board. Lots of good people there too. A guy that goes by the nickname of Candyman over there gives lots of good instruction with pictures on cleaning, fixing and refinishing stocks.

I've found several strippers that will remove that paint without harming the metal after my initial questions on the subject.

Two that I've used are: Motsenbockers "Lift Off" #4 Graffitti remover in the spray bottle and Kleen Strip brand "Strip-X" which is a gel. I used the gel type on the large areas and either sprayed the Lift Off #4 or poured a bit (it's a liquid) in a pan to soak the smaller parts in. Then use a very stiff bristled fiber or brass brush to brush away the flakes of paint loosened by the stripper. Oil the surfaces well with a good gun oil after stripping.

Mine had originally been parkerized and appeared to have been painted and very sloppily, I might add, when put into storage. The rear sight was totally covered and unusable until I soaked it in stripper and flushed it with Kroil (the best penetrating oil there is IMHO).

Kroil and a brush also helps get rid of the cosmolene residue left in the bore as well. I've found that Kroil has a real following of those using it as a bore cleaner too. I've tried it and it really gets the powder, lead and copper fouling out of a bore. Run a Kroil saturated patch through the bore, let it sit a couple of hours and then several dry patches - When the dry patch comes out with nothing on it, you're done.

Kroil has a neat smell too, almost smells like the commercial floor cleaner "Pine Sol".
If you can't find Kroil at a local hardware store do a search engine lookup on "Kroil" and you'll find lots of places you can mail order the stuff.

I'm not sure what that means. If you mean it etches then I guess that's partially true. I'll tell you the facts about Suncorite 259. When it was/is applied as a new, factory finish, the metal parts were/are phosphated/Parkerized first and then the Suncorite paint applied and baked on to the fresh phosphate or Parkerizing. It was also applied over existing blue or black oxide finishes during rebuild or FTR programs post 1944 providing the original finish was in good-intact condition and thoroughly cleaned and degreased. The paint is extremely tough and sometimes the only way to completely remove it is by glass bead blasting. To refinish with the best results, the metal MUST be Parkerized first and then the paint applied afterwards.

Brian, I have the spec sheets from Henkel for Suncorite 529, 259 and Aqua100. All three are considered essentially interchangeable by the manufacturer for automotive undercoating applications (primarily). 259 has, by far, the best abrasion-resisting characteristics. All three are classed as "self-phosphating" coatings. That is to say, if you apply it over bare metal, the paint itself will, over curing life, etch the underlying surface and color it grey. It will not substitute for a good parkerized sub-surface, but if you paint bare with Suncorite and then steel wool it off after a few weeks, the underlying surface will appear as worn parkerizing, when in fact it may not have been parked at all in the first place.

I have tried this first-hand. It is definitely true.

I too have rebuilt a few 2A1 Ishapore from India and each and every one has exhibited similar treatment in its previous life.

1. Oil based black paint hand applied, even the wood gets a bit slopped on it at the front swivel band.

2. A tan / beige grease applied to barrel and on the wood channel over the top of the the red grease.

3. A darker tan grease reminents through the trigger group and fine dust, maybe flood residue?

4. Bore and chamber appear to have been polished out, as when fully degunked the grooves are not polished, which suggests a final overhaul by India pre-release to western market OR done by the importer.

5. Under the paint is a parkerised finish which is patchy.

6. Draws collapsed, artificer repairs evident, phenyl glues used.

My 2 cents worth is that India would never dispose of service grade rifles, so all of these we have in the west are the runts of the litter.

NEVER just buy one and go out and shoot full power 308W ammo, you are looking for trouble. Not from failure but from damaging an already old and retired veteran of some very nasty conflicts.

How would you know if the draws are rooted? Only by disassembly, careful inspection and thoughtful repair will you have a shooter that will perform.

Sad thing was once the paint was removed from the rear sight, the adjuster would jump forward under recoil!

;)