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Didn't think this qualified for the fake forum since I wasn't pointing out how a specific fake. ANYWAYS, I've never been a big fan of the M91/30 Mosin-Nagants, since it seems like everyone and their father owns one, but the sniper versions have always appealed to me. How do you spot a fake? Naturally, I dont care if mines an original, but I dont want to be tricked into paying "original price" for a fake one.
The easy way would be that the seller/listing says so... I picked up a Century PU rifle from Impact Guns, which was listed as having a reproduction scope. Very happy with it, since the barrel is like brand new. Even came with paperwork that links the scope serial number to that of the rifle.
From what I've read, one way to spot a fake is looking at the mount screws. If they are not cleanly installed, it definitely is (with mine, the screws look correctly installed... which leads me to believe it may have been installed on a sniper or ex-sniper, since it is a 1942 rifle with matching parts). Another way would be to look at the stock cutout for the mount, and see if it looks fresh. Also, scope mounts are stamped with the rifle's number... fakes, I believe, usually are EPed.
Thanks! At least now I have somewhat of an idea of what to look out for at local gun shows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwball
M1/M3 Carbine: late '44 Inland
M1 Garand: late '44 Springfield
Look for a C or CH on the rifle barrel in with the other stamps. Not all sniper rifles were marked with these letters but many originals were. Look at the screws on the scope where they hold the adjustment caps on. If they are flat then it's a repo scope. Round head screws were used on the original scopes.
Be careful just going by the screws on the scope adjustment turrets. There are now reproduction PU scopes with the correct round head screws!
Tula snipers will usually have the CH mark on the barrel. Izhevsk rifles do not. The Izhevsk rifles often have scope numbers stamped on the left side of the barrel shank, which are sometimes lined out during the refurb process. The problem is, however, sometimes this scope number was polished off and it's sometimes hard to see remnants of the old number. In these cases, you want to look at other details.
Because the Izhevsk snipers had the scope number stamped right above the wood line on the left side of the barrel, the mark that looks like a "Y" inside a circle that you find on regular infantry rifles in this location had to be moved up. This can be a good indicator, although not 100% of the time.
There are published serial number blocks for both Tula and Izhevsk snipers that you can find with a little searching. If the rifle in question doesn't fit into these blocks, there is reason to question. Also, many of the fakes that have been produced are often built on rifles dated earlier than the PU design! Anything pre- 1942 was never an original PU sniper.
Original WWII scope mounts are fairly easy to identify by their machining marks. Here's some examples:
Izevsk mount has big circles like this:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_4591-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_2692-1.jpg
Tula has smaller circles like this:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_2497-1.jpg
If I were you, I would not buy one at a gun show. Your better off buying one online from a known source. RGUNS sells the real deal for $800. There was also a recent batch of imports from that several vendors are selling, including AIM Surplus, Classic Arms, Wideners, Royal Tiger, etc. These are all in the $600 range and have been "authenticated" by the collector communities online.
Good luck!
Widners is now say that these rifles are not WW2 snipers but were made by Molot sometime after the war? It does get confusing who is right and who isn't with these rifles.
Spottig a fake/replica, restored, or correct refurbed PU is no longer simple. jjjxlr8's post is helpful though.
The safest way right now is to get one of the Molot stamped rifles with IO import markings currently available from Classic arms or one from Rguns. These are well vetted and were PU snipers when they left the factory in 42-44 with varing degress of refurb. The Molot stamped PUs with IO import marks are not recently made my Molot, nor recently redone by Molot.
What's the going price for these guns?Quote:
Originally Posted by mike radford
M1/M3 Carbine: late '44 Inland
M1 Garand: late '44 Springfield
I have seen ads from $560 to $580 for them.