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Anyone can give a comparison between two, what the major difference and Pro and Cons?
I'm looking for a K31 but its not currently available, I thinking about getting K1911 and later K31. I'm looking for a good shooter, is the age of K1911 a concern? they are all 90+ years old.
The K11 is the basically the G11 with a shorter barrel. The very long action of the G11 means that the backsight is well forward of the shooter's eye, which makes it easier to see than an open backsight that is closer to the aiming eye. And the long barrel of the G11 (in fact, overall the G11 must be about the longest service rifle ever made for smokeless powder) provides a long sight radius (about 25.1") in spite of the backsight being well forwards.
The trouble with the K11 is that it is a G11 with a barrel that is approx. a foot shorter, but with the backsight in the same position. The foresight is further forwards than on a G11, but the sight radius is nevertheless reduced to about 19.4".
The K31 has a redesigned action that is (off the top of my head) 2.2" shorter, but the barrel is correspondingly longer, pushing the sight radius back up to about 22.4". Add to this, the fact that the Swiss made diopter sights available for the K31 action, but not for the older G11/K11 action, and you understand why competitive shooters prefer a K31 to a K11.
And the age of all these rifles is not a concern. Regardless of any dings that may be present on the outside, the Swiss army reserve system meant that they were "personal" rifles and not common-user material, so they were well maintained and usually have a very good to as-new bore.
P.S: watch this space! I hope to be able to try out the Hämmerli Jubilee K31 this weekend, and will report back.
Thanks,
Let me know how your K31 shoots.
I have all three rifles, G11, K11 and K31. I've fired the K11 and K31 but not the G11.
I'm not a competitive shooter, just an occasional shooter for fun but from my perspective, I didn't notice much difference between the K11 and K31 at the range. They were both more accurate than any other rifle (with open sights) I own and they were easy and fun to shoot. My K11 was made in 1917 and the K31 in 1943.
I'm not typically a good open sight shooter, I shoot at 50 yards for the most part and average about a 2-2 1/2 inch group with most of my milsurps. With the Swiss Rifles, that was down to an inch which was an inch and a half better than the guys on both sides of me with scopes.
I got the K31 first, loved it so much I bought the older ones. Funny thing is, I went to take the G11 to the range and it won't fit in my rifle case. It's 3 inches too long so yes, it is a very long rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
It's probably the longest service rifle ever made for smokeless powder (apart from anti-tank rifles, of course!). I had to build a special case for mine.
But please do try out the G11 with GP11 ammo. It has less recoil than the short rifles, and a very long sight radius. The most accurate "out of the box" service rifle with open sights and service ammo that I have yet experienced.
I do plan on shooting it and have been looking forward to doing so since I bought it. I was just taken aback that it wouldn't fit in the case. I brought it home from the auction wrapped up in a blanket and never thought about it being so long.
I have two more bricks of GP11 coming from Sportsman's Guide. I plan on shooting these a lot. I'm trying to make up my mind which one I want to get the screw down scope mount for. They are pricey so I doubt I'll get more than one. One would fit two rifles so I'm kind of leaning in that direction for more options.
They say the K31 is the most accurate but I would think the G11 would be the most accurate due to the barrel length.
the longest service rifle made? Is it longer than a 1910 Ross?
Happy K-11 driver here. Keeping on eye open for a K-31.
If you have a good supply of GP-11 ammo, you can't go too far wrong with either.
Yes, the action of the K-11 is a bit longer, but, in my limited experience, it is slicker than the K-31.
I can't get quantities of "real" GP-11 ammo in Oz, so I have to brew a near-equivalent. Because the K-11 is throated to accept the earlier round-nosed ammo, it has a longer throat than the GP-11-specific K-31. You can use any tangent ogive buller, like a Sierra, in the K-11. If you try to use them in the K-31, you will run into trouble because of the MUCH shorter bullet leade in the K-31 barrel.
My shooting buddy with a K-31 uses 168gn Hornady A-Max bullets which have a Secant ogive, just like the GP-11. They work VERY well. I tried some in my K-11 a while ago and they group quite nicely from the old girl, so I have adopted his load. The 178 gn jobs may work, too, but I'm happy with the 168's.
Having recently acquired an 1891 Mosin Nagant and wanting to take it to the range, I grabbed it and the 1911 last Sunday. They are the same length or within the flexibility of carpet as I set them both on the floor for comparison.
I did not like shooting the 1911 as much as the shorter rifles. Not that it was not a fun rifle to shoot, I just prefer the sight picture on the other two. But in fairness to the rifle, it was hard seeing the targets with show everywhere, plus it was cold. And I was a bit more concerned with the 1891 that day. That was shooting way low due to incorrect 91/30 front sight.
My son in law shot a very nice 1 inch three shot group with the 1911 so it is accurate. I wasn't so fortunate and my group was about 3 inches.