Common issue points to look for when assessing a purchase No4s (at least)

Hi ppls,

Having been caught out, can ppl suggest points other to look for when assessing the condition and safety of a no4 please?

My points so far,

check chamber and mag are empty....

a) barrel muzzle and throat wear, common. Check - visual inspection.
b) Body wear, jamming seer, Check - run action a few times for smoothness, check trigger is not holding seer down, disguising this.
c) Safety assembly wear and type, is not lose/sloppy and not of the smooth type as this is considered unsafe. easy replace?
d) Cocking piece is not of smooth type, this is considered unsafe, easy replace, but meeds a tool?
e) Cocking piece, point were seer sits does not look worn. Check - visual
e) Bolt, Striker protrudes correct distance and is rounded and not chipped.
f) Headspace, should not close on a field gauge. Check - use gauge.
g) Bolt lugs, both contact and have good area. Check, clean lugs, apply whiteboard marker to both, action 2 or 3 times, remove bolt visually inspect.
h) If 3 stamped bolt head fitted rifle may have a limited life? (you cant get a 4 now can you?).

This look OK?

(h) the bolt head sizes are there for breeching up new barrels, not to accommodate some sort of "stretch". A rifle with a 3 bolthead will easily outlast its owner....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

(h) the bolt head sizes are there for breeching up new barrels, not to accommodate some sort of "stretch". A rifle with a 3 bolthead will easily outlast its owner....

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Interesting....however Ive seen some comments that this is what ppl do....boy do I get my eyes opened from asking Qs here....

:banghead:

thanks.

:beerchug:

But excess headspace can be tightened up by changing bolt heads.

Something that shows up on SMLE's is excessive bolthead lift when closed. Not enough support by the receiver ring.

On a Mk.1* I'd inspect the corners of the bolt head release slot to see if they're beaten to death and I'd work the bolt rapidly a number of times to ensure the head doesn't jump out of the track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve H. in N.Y.

On a Mk.1* I'd inspect the corners of the bolt head release slot to see if they're beaten to death and I'd work the bolt rapidly a number of times to ensure the head doesn't jump out of the track.

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My '42 longbranch is this way. But as long as you aren't yanking the bolt back with max force or anything it stays on track 97% of the time lol. And it has better traction when actually loading and ejecting rounds

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve H. in N.Y.

On a Mk.1* I'd inspect the corners of the bolt head release slot to see if they're beaten to death and I'd work the bolt rapidly a number of times to ensure the head doesn't jump out of the track.

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Ah yes....I'd forgotten that wee nasty....

Ah, yes, the Mk1* issue.

The most common "issue" is, as mentioned, chipping of the edges of the guide rail on the right side.

The edges get chipped because the bolt body is floating around in the bolt raceway of the receiver like a frog in a sock. This looseness is generally the result of hundreds of thousands of cycles of the action. All that "prove" and "ease springs" caper had to do something.

As I recall, at least one agency / manufacturer put tiny little bevels on the corners of the UPPER surface of that tiny guide rib on the bolt head. This meant that the occasional clash of bolt head and rail would result in less work-hardening / fracture of the corners.

The problem is, of course, why would the bolt float about to such an extent? Basically: WEAR.

If you look at a Lee Enfield, the bolt is reasonably well controlled laterally; right side support being somewhat less than that on the left.

Vertically, it is a different story.

At NO point is leverage to the bolt BODY completely constrained vertically until the bolt head enters the rear breech ring.

The bolt is driven by the nut behind it and thus all manner of "stray" pressures are applied to it during cycling.

The "natural" thing is that, on opening / rearward stroke, the rear of the bolt tends to be tilted upwards, thus forcing the head down. On a Mk1*, this means that the bolthead "dips. This in turn tends to cause the "lug" of the bolt head to be levered UPWARDS using the flat rail as a fulcrum. Thus, the ends of the tiny rib on the bolt head may start nibbling at the nice square ends of the "retaining" rail.

When the bolt is driven forwards, the "natural" tendency is to push down on the bolt handle as it is driven forward. This, of course makes the bolt head tend to tilt upwards, along with all the attendant / subsequent "lever" activities.

Given that the rear "ring" of the receiver is pretty much a dirty great slot with a couple of relatively small radiused surfaces to actually support all of this bolt manipulation, it's not surprising that things can get a little worn after 60 or more years.

And all of this changes by varying degree when you actually feed cartridges through the thing.

A GOOD TIG driver can probably replace the missing chunks on that rail, (along wth a little tidying up courtesy of Mr. Dremel). HOWEVER!! there is not much point tidying up the rail on the receiver if the rear bearing surfaces are flogged out and /or the bolt body is badly worn.

A rifle with a No3 bolthead could easily STILL correctly CHS up with a No2 bolthead or dare I say it, with a 'high spec' No1 bolt head. We have been through this countless times on the forum about bolt head sozes and believe me, that vary enormously (?) - a bit like Bren and L1A1 locking shoulders and Bren barrel nut sizes. We used to say 'never over CHS' If it'll CHS with a loose 2, for xxxx sake, don't use a tight 3!

hells bells Peter please dont blow a fuse....I at least need you alive so I can ask dumb q's of someone!