And todays mystery object?????

I'm not sure where this one should go so if it's in the wrong place can you please move it Badger.
I found this item in an antique shop a few weeks ago and was fascinated by it. It appears to be a rifle case, I can't think what else it might be used for especilly as there appears to have been a stowage for a bayonet, it's now missing but the outline is still very promenant. The two buckles make me think it might have been strapped to a carridge of some description as I can't see how it would been attached to a saddle or similar.
The "Broard Arrow" over 43 would indicate a British acceptance mark but the writing underneath is Russian "Cyrillic" which is what really drew me to it, I have since found out that the writing is "Old Russian" used before 1912 and it reads "From England". If the 43 was the year of acceptance it must be 1843 which begs the question were we exporting rifles cases to Russia in 1843 or were we also sending arms as well and if so what would have gone into this case?
The shape of the bayonet blade is still very obvious, it appears to have been about 15 inches long double edged with a center groove, the rifle mount part of the bayonet would have stuck out of the bottom of the case which makes me think the case was mounted horizontally to allow the "rifle" to be removed from one end and the bayonet from the other, it would be great to know what actually went into this very well made piece of kit, any ideas????

You omitted to provide the most basic dimension - what is the overall internal length? I can't read the marks on the tape measure. Seems to be around 43". That measurement would probably eliminate a lot of possibilities for an 1843 vintage. I am not at all sure that it is for a rifle. Take just about any percussion rifle and measure the drop from the top of the hammer to the toe of the butt - 6" is hardly enough. And the photo of the open end appears to show 2 opposing slots, which are hard to reconcile with the typical cross-section of a percussion rifle. How long are these slots?

My Russian is not what it once was, but I read it as "From England". The Arrow and 43 could mean it came together with a lot of other (mostly redundant or obsolete) military aid during WWII. As the other Patrick noted, the length seems to be about 43cm (17 inches). Could it have been for a grenade launcher or something similar?

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

You omitted to provide the most basic dimension - what is the overall internal length? I can't read the marks on the tape measure. Seems to be around 43". That measurement would probably eliminate a lot of possibilities for an 1843 vintage. I am not at all sure that it is for a rifle. Take just about any percussion rifle and measure the drop from the top of the hammer to the toe of the butt - 6" is hardly enough. And the photo of the open end appears to show 2 opposing slots, which are hard to reconcile with the typical cross-section of a percussion rifle.

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Sorry for the omission there is always one missing, the internal dimension is 41.5 inches, 105cm. The two "slots" that you can see are strips of leather that run the full length of the case, the lines of rivets on the outside is what holds them in place. I agree that it seems rather short for a rifle case but the "bayonet" stowage, if thats what it is made me question its use.
I was told that the Russian Cyrillic used in the words "From England" was discontinued before WW1 hence the thought that the case was 1843.

Looks more like it would be used for signals equipment or something similar. Construction details etc. look too late to be 1843.

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Originally Posted by gsimmons

Looks more like it would be used for signals equipment or something similar.

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Indeed. My thoughts had drifted to surveying equipment. I have something similar (but shorter) in canvas, and it contains a very spindly-looking tripod. Not solid enough to mount a theodolite, more likely a mirror or target point..

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Originally Posted by Buccaneer

... the internal dimension is 41.5 inches, 105cm. The two "slots" that you can see are strips of leather that run the full length of the case, the lines of rivets on the outside is what holds them in place

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40" or 1 meter levelling bar for artillery use?

Any gunnery experts out there?

The broadarrow and 43 is not necessarily a date, it may be the inspectors number.

The broad arrow stamp and Cyrillic lettering would have been applied in the UK, not in Russia. The largest shipment of military equipment from the UK to Russia was during WWII. If it´s internally over one metre, my LE No. 5 would fit inside.

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Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I was told that the Russian Cyrillic used in the words "From England" was discontinued before WW1

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Sorry for my ignorance of Russian scripts, but when I google "Russian Cyrillic alphabet", I see letters that look just the same today. If your informant meant to say that the typeface was old-fashioned, then that means nothing in the traditional world that gave us the "Enfield inch". Heavens, the typeface of the "43" looks old enough to be truly from 1843! But such stamps and letter sets, especially those only used very rarely, would have been in the workplace inventory for decades, and no-one would have been concerned whether the workshop Cyrillic set was in a "modern" typeface. "Just mark it up and send it off mate."

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Originally Posted by villiers

If it´s internally over one metre, my LE No. 5 would fit inside.

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An intriguing idea. But have you measured the drop?

Try the following: stand the No.5 upside down on a table, i.e. resting on the foresight "ears" and the backsight. You'll probably have to use one hand to hold the butt. Now measure the height of the toe above the table. Would it fit in that case?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

An intriguing idea. But have you measured the drop?

Try the following: stand the No.5 upside down on a table, i.e. resting on the foresight "ears" and the backsight. You'll probably have to use on hand to hold the butt. Now measure the height of the toe above the table. Would it fit in that case?

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I have laid my No5 on top of the case and it would probably fit, unfortunately the leather has gone rock hard so I can't actually try it as there is no longer any "give" and I don't want to damage the gun. I came to a similar conclusion about the "43" it's probably just an inspectors mark and a bit of a red herring... The thoughts about "field gear" also crossed my mind but how do we explain what appears to be a stowage for a bayonet, or could it be some kind of spike to secure whatever was inside?? :confused: