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I'm shopping for a friend who is out of country. I'm asking for opinions, sources and prices on the .22 Ciener adapter. Additionally, If anyone has experience pro/con on ammo while using the adapter, I'd appreciate any info.
My friend is obviously concerned about future shopping opportunities. I'm more familiar with the Springfield forum, but I trust the folks here are every bit as knowledgeable and helpful to questioners. Thanx, Gene.
... device works quite well BUT that is not the way to go. What he needs is a dedicated .22 upper. The twist rate on the .223 barrel is far too tight for the puny .22 LR and causes severe leading/fouling and loss of accuracy after only a few rounds. The fouling can be a real b!tch to remove. Firing a couple of .223 rounds will knock a lot of it out but I don't know how that effects the pressure curve and it probably isn't a very wise thing to do.
:dunno:
The Atchisson/Ceiner design appears to be the way to go, but I'd certainly never recommend buying direct from JAC.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsfer
In the same design category would be:
Spike's Tactical
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann
Bobby Bowden is doing a fine job - just leave him alone.
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The ciener adaptor in a 223 at best is tin can accuracy. Thats OK if thats what you want to do and nothing wrong with that at all. If you any better accuracy, you need a dedicated upper with a smallbore target barrel on it and the accuracy will be good for target work. But for casual plinking the Ciener in a 223 is OK. I even saw on You Tube or some site that someone made his Ciener in a 223, fully automatic. Shot an entire clip all at once and it was fun to watch.Bottom line is for plain fun, the Ciener is OK but for target shooting practice the dedicated upper is the way to go. Welcome to Accuracy Speaks or CLE in Fl sells them...about $1100 area. Keep in mind these are some of best dedicated uppers for 22 rimfire. Lower priced dedicated units may jam up. These units are A LOT of fun to shoot and 22 rimfire is much lower priced than 223 ammo.
I met him at a machine gun shoot in Arkansas 20 years ago and bought a Atchisson/Ciener .22 conversion from him along with 3 - 30 rd mags. In the next couple of days I put 2 bricks of .22 LR through the unit installed in my H&R M-16A1. Mr. Ciener personally tuned each mag and the unit functioned (as long as it was clean) flawlessly on full auto. ZZZiiiippp! And 30 rds were down range. Soon there was a crowd gathered around my range position and they were all pretty darned impressed by it's performance.
I judged Mr. Ciener to be a 1st rate and up front guy. At another MG shoot my M-16 pulled the head off a .223 round and I couldn't get the front half of the case out of the chamber. JAC came by and spent several minutes working on the rifle and got me going again. He refused any compensation for the favor.
For the record, the only gripe I had about the unit was the fouling I mentioned above and I would recommend it as a more affordable substitute. Just my $.02.
:super:
To add to what Red and Ratter said above- The rifling for a standard .22LR is usually 16 turns per inch. The rifling for the .223 is usually 7,9, or 12 turns per inch in a M16/AR-15 type rifle. The bore diameter for a .223 is about .002/.003 bigger in diameter than it is in a .22 barrel. So what you have is a .22 bullet going thru a .223 barrel that is too big in diameter and with a rifling twist that is too slow. The result is that the bullet is not as accurate as it could be. O.K. for casual plinking, but you won't get very good accuracy. Also, that very dirty .22 powder residue gets blown in your gas tube. Shooting several .223 bullets might clean it out. Might not. Before I got my dedicated upper, I used an M261 Adapter. It worked well. The only limit was the 10 round magazine. I think Black Dog Magazines has fixed that. I did change out the gas tube on the .223 upper when I got my .22 upper just to be on the safe side.The .22 upper is a straight blow back operation, so no worries.With the adapter, even at 25 yards, the accuracy was not so good. at 100 yards, there was no accuracy.
This is a little off thread, but - I had Accuracy Speaks build me a dedicated 22 upper. I can now shoot out to 100 yards (and more), and hit anything I aim at. It doesn't take any longer to trade upper receivers than it does to open up the receivers and trade bolt carriers. The dedicated upper is real pricey, however in the long term has paid for itself in ammunition savings.
Good Luck. Regards, Johnny Lawson
I never had a Ceiner. I had an Atchisson. It worked perfectly. Both in the military rifle and the old Colt 1/12 twist. It took whatever ammo I used and never even burped. Just emptied mag after mag.