SAVAGE No 4MK1 T SNIPER QUESTIONS

Hi guys....was contacted by a fellow today with a 1942 Savage No4 T "all matching, complete" kit for sale. The question I have is...... the old serial # number on the mount is "ground off", ( it now sports a new serial # which matches rifle serial #) looks like bubba took a disc grinder and held it perpendicular to the face of the mount to do the job, as the the indentation is elongated and radius-ed. I know old numbers are usually xxxxxx'ed out if mounts were re-issued.....is it possible this was done while in service? I think not but.........

Another red flag! Top of butt where scope serial # is stamped in 23915 (and by the way it's a AK&S 1945 scope) perpendicular to that, the serial # of rifle is stamped in the wood behind scope serial #. I have not seen that before........

I'm kinda thinking the rifle is possibly one of the scopeless Savage T's that someone completed in their basement or it's an entirely made up T. But I could be wrong as well.

Incorrect scope case..... but the one it comes with is a REL canvas case. Chest looks to be in nice shape.

Seller indicated no S51 on bottom off butt. The "TR" is on the butt socket but no T on left receiver wall where they are normally stamped.

I do have pictures but again computer skills are lacking.....sorry.

Thanks for your time and input.

For those looking for additional information on Savage No.4(T) sniper rifle conversions, check the MKL and read this article by Advisory Panel member Lance:

1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope)

Regards,
Doug

If you could find a way to get those pictures posted bros, I think you'd get a definitive response. I think your gut instincts will probably prove to be right - either a total fake or a 'Less Telescope' rifle that someone has added a scope to. Incidentally, all of the rifles that I've seen, both Savage Mk1 & Mk1* T's, that were completed with scope, bore lowish serial number scopes (Mk1's or possibly early Mk2's). Never saw a Savage with a late Mk2 or a Mk3 scope on it unless it was rescoped. You also wouldn't expect to see the TR on the butt socket as this was instituted by BSA Shirley to clearly distinguish the rifles earmarked for 4T conversion.

If you possibly can, try & get those pix uploaded.

Roger was kind enough to accept some pictures I have sent him via e-mail...I'm sure he will give me the goods on this rifle. I have the limited knowledge to email pictures but not to upload them to this site.
Regards.

Yep, check your email inbox Pete. All the various parts of the kit are genuine, including the rifle. What looks at first like a 'TR' on the butt socket is one of those early 'FTR' stamped markings, but poorly done so it's difficult to make out. Most likely it is a 'Less Telescope' rifle that has had the scope & bracket added, but there is a possibility that it could have been done in service, with a later civvy owner taking it upon himself to remove an earlier rifle number that had been stamped onto the scope bracket (& making a pig's ear of it).

(Sorry Peter, this last possibility didn't occur to me until I'd already got back to you by email). I'm pretty technologically challenged myself, but if I can work out how to do it I'll post the pictures you sent.

Attachment 91079Attachment 91080Attachment 91081Attachment 91082Attachment 91083Attachment 91084Attachment 91085Attachment 91086Let's see if this works....

I've added most though not all of the photo's that the vendor sent to bros as some are very similar to each other.

I spoke with the owner today on the phone and I asked about what Roger had said that the "TR" was probably a poorly stamped "FTR"!! Owner confirmed this...he thought it was a "FTP" but close enough...we really know what it is now. Question I have, if it was one of the scope less unfinished H&H conversions why would it be FTR stamped? Did any of the scope less Savages that were not completed by H&H later get fitted brackets and scopes and put into service? If not......why would there have been any need to have it go through a Factory Thorough Repair, when presumably it would have not seen any service?
Am I missing something here?
Regards.

That's a good point bros, & I'd be interested to hear what thoughts others have. However, the more I think about it I wonder if it may have been scoped up with the Mk3 in service, rather than by Bubba. The marking of the rifle serial number on the butt I've seen on a few occasions now, & may have been done at unit level so that individual rifles could be selected easily when in racks. It may just be that Bubba thought the presence of a previous rifle number on the bracket offensive & so decided to 'improve' things by grinding it off. And in fairness, the present rifle serial marked on the bracket doesn't look like it was done last week, & may have been there a long time.