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So I purchased a new 20" barrel and Take down extension for a 1897 Winchester and it indexes about 25deg past true. Has anyone used shims to get the timing correct? Or should a small amount be turned off the shoulder of the barrel to get another 3/4 turn?
Don't they make, or didn't they make...a variation of the threaded collars that head-space the barrel? They made a number of them that adjusted this problem...and we were just talking about it here.
When you set back a barrel, you need to do it in complete rotations. You can't do just a smidge with a barrel that's finished and roll marked without things being off TDC. I just did a 760 Remington to correct excess head-space by doing a setback of two threads, which equaled one rotation. Problem gone...after.
The issue is when the barrel screws into the Take down extension, not the Takedown extension into the receiver. When the barrel screws into the Take down extension it tightens about 25 deg. past straight up. I have not yet tried the fit of the Takedown extension to the receiver with an adjusting collar.
What about a stainless steel shim?
Something like this but of the proper diameter: https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...prod96012.aspx
A correct thickness shim (it wouldn't be much) would take up that 25 degrees pretty easy.
Also check here: https://www.mcmaster.com/shims
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcathey
So, headspace will be an issue, don't know how much of one with this particular thing. You'd still need to do a setback, one rotation at least. Then the fittings up front will be out of whack. I doubt the pressures here are serious enough to effect things. You can try a shim and see. Like using stainless washers 1 thousandth each... But that was the whole idea behind the different collars wasn't it? Just screw a new one on and come to TDC with the barrel?Quote:
Originally Posted by M1 C FAN
No shims. I was headed this route years ago but after talking with a gunsmith friend who used to repair and/or cut down guns for customers that were into CAS back in the day and reading up on rebarreling a Winchester 97 TD I changed my mind. Theres way more involved than just screwing one barrel off and the new one on, lots of fitting required to do it right.
IIRC, when the factory assembled these they'd select a barrel and hand fit extensions until they found one that would hand tighten a couple degrees before TDC. Then it would be tightened using a purpose made tool that supported the extension to avoid distorting it.
Once that was done they'd fit it to the frame with the indexing sleeve,again trying different ones until the two halves tightened up correctly. There were 3 or 4 different sleeves for the 97 I think, a standard unmarked and three others lettered A, B & C. The difference had to do with either the number of notches or the placement of the notches in relation to the external, interrupted threads. I forget which.
Next it would need fitting to the chamber ring. If the chamber ring and chamber are misaligned there will be feeding and/or extraction problems, among other things.
Then it would need headspacing and then....get the picture.
Ever notice the serial numbers on the extension of TD guns? They look hand stamped dont they? They are, the barrel section wouldn't recieve a s/n until fitting was complete.
I've most likely left out something as it's been nearly 20 years since I considered rebarreling mine.
My advice would be to find a smith who's knowledgeable on the workings of these old guns to do the refit.
Thank You all. I figured I would need a smith just to tighten the barrel without hurting the extension anyway so I will be talking to a good smith.
You might want to give Rick Stover at The Cowboy Way a call. He's a semi-retired gunsmith who used to do a lot of work for CAS shooters and is very knowledgeable about the Winchester 1897.
I had him rework my 1897 and he replaced the chamber ring and take down extension and when I got it back it sure did fit tight. He may also have parts?
Bottom line is as others have said is that there were variations in the take down extension and one was picked at the factory for the best fit in the receiver, after which the chamber ring needs to be sized accordingly so that there is no gap between it and the end of the barrel.
I vaguely recall that Winchester produced three "generations" of the '97 in fairly short order. The first ones were little more than variants on the black-powder fueled 1893, beefed-up to handle smokeless loads. Apparently it took a bit of "Beta-testing" by the customers to iron out all the fiddly details.
From what I heard from contacts in the US, when the Chinese, (Norinco), first introduced their '97 "clone", it had many "issues". One assessment was that whoever had supplied them with the "sample" sent over a heavily "pre-loved" early -production gun. This was faithfully copied, warts, worn and damaged parts and all.
Later ones are allegedly a lot better.
The serial number on the frame will indicate which variant you have. Note that some '97 examples have no visible serial number. There was some caper involving Sears and Roebuck, among others. Some are simply marked "WRA Co." As others have mentioned, contact a '97 specialist to avoid further frustration.