SMLE #1 Mk 3 Grenade Launcher

This rifle had the wire reinforced stock, but the wire was in very bad shape, so I removed it so the gun could be dismantled. I would like to restore it back to it's original configuration. I guess I have a couple of questions. First; besides the stock wire reinforcement, are there any other modifications made to these rifles to turn them into grenade launchers. The date on the buttsocket is 1915 and the serial # is G802. The parts of this rifle all match, so it would be great to get it shooting. The barrel looks fine, 5 grooves in good shape, no pitting. Question #2- I read somewhere that only FMJ ammo should be fired in these grenade launchers. Is that true. Also, any info on the history of this rifle would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much.
Ken B:

Ken,

I purchased two of these rifles thru a company down in Georgia when they first entered the country back in 1987. They were $65.00 a piece at the time. I talked to a gentleman down here who told me that they also imported a few that had the sheet metal bands versus the copper wire. They had imported thousands of the copper-wired No. 1's with only a handfull of the sheet metal reinforced rifles.

From what I remember the copper wire reinforcement was strictly an Indian modification. "GF" (grenade-firing) was stamped on the receiver over top of the chamber. Same thing for the rifle with the sheet metal wrap. After doing a little research, I was able to find some pictures of No. 1's with the sheet metal wrap in the English trenches of WWI.

The bores in both of my rifles were very worn. This may be due to using the grenades that had the steel tubes that slide down the bores. Later, I was able to find two of the cup-dischargers for $20.00 a piece.

I don't think these rifles have ever appealed to shooters; only to collectors, for the simple fact that most of the bores were worn. I used to see them everywhere at the gun shows when they first appeared. They were shunned by collector/shooters for a few years because they just didn't appeal to many people. Now you rarely see them...at least in my part of the country.

Mike

Mike

Copper wire re-inforcement is not strictly Indian. It was done also in Australia and in the UK, though the UK primarily did this mod in WW1, it continued to be done in small batches up to the 1960's or so.

If you go to the technical articles section, there is an article there from Peter Laidler about these guns.

These guns are identical to any other SMLE, except that they are re-inforced with wire for grenade launching with the use of the discharger cup. This is so that in the unlikely event the stock shatters, the firer won't be wounded.

You can shoot ball, or any other safe .303 ammo in these guns. No problem. Assuming hte gun is in good repair, that is.

As for replacing the wire, it can be done if you can find sufficient qty of the correct diameter wire. After that, it's just a matter of re-wrapping the wire the same as it came off and re-soldering the ends, usually for 6 rows of wire.

As a trick, to solder, use flux and heat the wire itself with a torch, then the solder will flow by itself and you won't burn the stock all to hell.

As for bores, some are worn, many are like new. Depends on the specific rifle being discussed. My example has a bore that looks unfired. The discharger cups now sell for $100+, not sure why.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claven2

Copper wire re-inforcement is not strictly Indian. It was done also in Australia and in the UK, though the UK primarily did this mod in WW1, it continued to be done in small batches up to the 1960's or so.

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Thanks for correcting me. That's what I get for speaking in absolutes! I sold my rifles several years ago after my tastes changed and have not kept up with them since then. When I spoke to the importer/distributor via phone back in '87, I remember him telling me that this particular batch came out of India, so that's where I made my assumption.

Mike

Thank you to both of you gentlemen for your information. This rifle was hands down, the ugliest gun I had ever seen at the time that I bought it. But, since then, I have cleaned up the stock and the metal as well. I was quite surprised to find that the barrel and action appear to be in great shape. Also, I think I will be able to salvage the stock. I've been working on it and it's starting to look pretty good. I also found out that the old bayonet that I have had since I was in high school snaps right on to this gun. It's an M1907. How about that. It just gets better and better. It will be a few weeks before I will be able to shoot this rifle, but I will let you know how it goes when the time comes. Again, thanks for your help. This is a great resource for us new guy collectors.
Regards
Ken B

Wire Wrap Varients

Varnished single strand electrical copper wire.
a) Pinned with tacks
b) Soldered

Steel band.

In the 1990's Springfield Sporters were selling these for around $60-$70 dollars with the discharger cup and in very good shape. The cup is now available for $100 without the rifle! They never appealed to me since the regular SMLE No.1 Mk III's were not much more in price. If only I had known then what I know now! :bash:

Hi Ken ... :)

If you want to have some fun with the cup dischargers, here's a great "fun" video in The Screening Room (click here) section of the Milsurp Knowledge Library.

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0002.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0001.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0003.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0004.jpg

It's a range video of members engaged in The Great Canadian Tennis Ball Challenge competitive match at Milcun, using WW1 Enfield Wire Wrapped Grenade Rifles and Dischargers (click here).

Make sure you turn ON your speakers and turn the volume up to hear the sound effects !


There's also another Knowledge Library entry on WW1 Enfield Wire Wrapped Grenade Rifles and Dischargers (click here), showing close up pics as well as instructions on how to use them.

Hope this helps ... :)

Regards,
Badger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smelly sam

Wire Wrap Varients

Varnished single strand electrical copper wire.
a) Pinned with tacks
b) Soldered

Steel band.

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Have also seen Steel wire wrapped similar to "a)" and a couple of "string" wrapped ones that were fairly "high mileage".

Mr. Laidler described the process of wrapping the stocks some time back. Even if you have a largish lathe to turn the whole works on, it sounds rather dangerous. I still might try it one day,though!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Mr. Laidler described the process of wrapping the stocks some time back. Even if you have a largish lathe to turn the whole works on, it sounds rather dangerous. I still might try it one day,though!

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Good point ... :thup:

Two excellent articles by Peter ... :)

"Exploding P14 Grenade Discharger Cups" (by Peter Laidler)

"Myths and Truths of No.1 EY Rifles" (by Peter Laidler)

Regards,
Badger