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20 Mar 2022 Garand Picture of the Day - Can you id the SN Range?
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2 Attachment(s)
serial number range
I am going to guess the serial number range is between 1450 and 5000.
Anyway, I believe it is under 5K because the bottom marked drawing number startedAttachment 124878Attachment 124879
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I'm going early on the basis of the fastback Op Rod handle bolster.
Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bob Womack
I'm going early on the basis of the fastback Op Rod handle bolster.
Bob
"Early" :slap: that is a broad brush - does anything narrow it down for you?
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They moved the drawing number D 35382-0 to the bottom around 5000 serial number range, the photo does not show
a bottom marked drawing number. Before that the drawing number D 35382-0 was marked on top, the serial number
would be in the 1938 range.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark in Rochester
"Early" :slap: that is a broad brush - does anything narrow it down for you?
I used up my number memory on recording equipment, guitars, and railroad locomotives. I haven't memorized serials for Garands. :madsmile:
Bob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
RCS
They moved the drawing number D 35382-0 to the bottom around 5000 serial number range, the photo does not show
a bottom marked drawing number. Before that the drawing number D 35382-0 was marked on top, the serial number
would be in the 1938 range.
What stood out to me was
1) no rev no heat lot on the receiver
2) Numbered follower rod - believe this was very early but don't have date
3) unmarked op-rod - there was unmarked -1 op rods in the 30,000 range
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Numbered follower rods have been found in use until Jan. 1939, rifle 7114. There is a gap in known data as the next original rifle is 10355, April 1939, and it has an unmarked follower rod. So that gives us a possible overlap period of 4 months (January thru April) and a 3000, or so, serial number range. So with known data we can definitely say use was up to 7000 serial range and possibly to 10000 serial range with possible mixed usage. I'm still working and researching more on this to narrow the gap in data.
The op rod is more than likely top marked as it is slant cut on the side and if it is an original rifle then the other parts would also lead credit to it being earlier than the 30k range as most parts with drawing numbers had the numbers dropped around the 20000 serial range. The unmarked -1 op rods were straight cut. There is a listing in Pyle's Gas Trap book of an unmarked slant cut op rod. I haven't observed one in an original rifle, as of yet and a few rods found were BMB or PB marked and I've seen a few unmarked rods but not in original rifles. These are unknown, by me at this time, if they are foreign, Springfield, or Winchester. Not doubting their existence but researching for definitive or more substantial proof.
The follower arm is numbered and has double bevels. The same observation with use with this follower arm is made with the numbered follower rod, so 7000 range possibly up to 10000 range.
With everything observed and known useage of parts that gives us a range of known original rifles to 7000 range, as there are not any known original rifles between 7114 and 10355, at least by me at this time. Now it's not 7114 or 4016 (no known rifles between these serial numbers as of yet). 7114 is in a museum in the UK and 4016 is still owned by the Army and both are in excellent condition not worn as this rifle shows. Comparing pictures of earlier known rifles there is one rifle that shows the same wear and distinctive markings on the op rod and follower arm, same follower rod, same style compensating spring and Keystone, etc... also taking into consideration the known where abouts and condition of 1684 (has weld seam op rod and mint condition, 2025 (SAHNS, doesn't match condition), 2126 (original barreled receiver gas cylinder assembly with restoration but doesn't match finish or distinctive features) ,2838 (observations seem to indicate alot of originality with fit, finish, wear patterns, and patina of parts and 99% of rifles is correct. Rifle was sold as a restoration and I have my doubts after personally inspecting it in great detail but regardless it also doesn't match these pictures), 3343 (private collection , nice rifle but doesn't match pictures). So that leaves one rifle left that is known to me, at this time, and that is 1630.
Paul
---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------
If the picture is of 1630, there is a very unique feature of the barrel on that rifle .
There are only two known original Gas Trap rifles with this feature.
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Great post - thank you
The unmarked -1 op rods were straight cut.:confused:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MPw2v4ag-1.jpg
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Most unmarked op rods are straight cut. Slant cut ones are rare and may or may not be foreign. Most foreign rods are marked on the undeside of the rod and not on the traditional places where USGI rods are marked. There are USGI ones but unknown at this time wether they missed getting stamped or are truly unmarked. I have not physically seen one on an original rifle as of yet, so it's difficult to determine actual usage for me right now until I can verify further. I'm not saying to discount them for not being real. My research is continuing and all of the rods observed on original rifles so far have been straight cut.
Springfield did experiment with a two piece op rod during modelshop testing before production but continued to use the weld seam for the first 1500-1600 rifles. That's an interesting story in itself.
Remember that published data is data that is thought to be correct or known at the time of publishing. We constantly learn more as time goes by. Please do not misunderstand what I'm posting. I am not discounting the existence of unmarked slant cut op rods but am trying to verify actual usage to go along with published data and trying to narrow the gaps in our data and knowledge, especially with early and preproduction.
