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Agreed. Which is why I normally take along a silicone lubricant when going to the range. I used it on both the Inlands I've had so far. On the surfaces of the receiver, slide, bolt and barrel that move on, over or in one another. On these two it didn't help.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Jim
Jim, I would like to Thank You for what you have been doing for this New Inland and want to Thank You for answering a question I always wanted to know about my Carbine. I enjoy your work. When I read about MKS was going to start manufacturing this New Inland Carbine they mentioned that the Parts were the going to be the same as the Original Inland, was this correct ? I've only shot one of these New Inland Carbines once and that was enough for me to not want to buy one at this time. When I got a chance to take it down and look over the parts the Bolt Lug looked different then all the spare USGI Carbine ones I have. I took pictures of it, but If you say they are same then maybe the Bolt was defective or had worn down. I do know there not the same as the type of metal. The New Carbine is Cast. I mean the design of the parts.
Thank You and I can't wait to see your Page !
Frank
Hi. Replied via e-mail or so I thought. Dont do much forum time. No, the bolts are not the same as GI. Neither is the slide.
"Parts the same as GI" is subject to interpretation as to the definition of "same". They look like GI, are based on GI, or are M1 Carbine parts. Etc.
The bolt may have worn down too. You probably saw the pictures of the one I posted on the first carbine I bought that I posted when I started this thread. It's been a consistent problem with many of their bolts. The bolt in the 2nd one they sent me was different than the first but still not to GI dimensions. And a used bolt, not new as the replacement carbine was.
The page will have to wait until I get this next replacement as I want to encourage them to get it right. I truly wish they'd get it right.
My recommendation for now is hold off and see if they make the changes needed. Until then, buy a Fulton Armory barreled receiver with the bolt, barrel band and front sight when they are on sale when they are about $675. Add a trigger group, rear sight, slide and wood and the cost won't be that much more than an Inland and well worth the price. They'll outlive us all. High quality and truly to GI specs. Only commercial carbine that ever has been, despite many claims. The "RockOla" by James River is close to GI spec but does not have the attention to detail and finish as those by Fulton Armory. also, the James River receivers are machined to accommodate the commercial M1A1 stocks, not the other way around. Problem is the recoil plate of the M1 stock will not lock up properly because of the cut to accommodate the M1A1 stock. Finish on the first receiver I ordered from them was spotted from poor parkerizing. Their response was it was still functional, like it was acceptable. Different manufacturer for a different time.
Also, the Fulton receivers alone are less expensive than the James River receivers, especially when Fulton has a sale going. They do sales most holidays and will likely have a Christmas and New Years sale. Both receivers are machined from Forged steel. Those used by Fulton are manufactured by Lewis Machine Tool (LMT), same folks that produced the GI spec carbine receivers in the late 90's for Springfield Armory of Geneseo, IL. But SA stopped short of making the entire carbine.
Jim
Silicone grease is a different animal than say axle grease or lubriplate. It is designed to provide some lubrication but at the same time it will not harm rubber goods, O rings and gaskets. I use it on watches where lubrication will preserve a rear case gasket and not deteriorate with time. It would not be my first choice for firearms.
I agree with others who applaud your extensive work on these new guns. I wouldn't have the patience that you have. Most of this stuff is inexcusable. Customers should not pay for development of a product with either their time or money.
Jim, you are taking the right route to encourage them to "get it right." In my professional work, I teach and consult in business as well as having run a number of businesses. The companies that succeed put forth a standard of excellence in everything they do, from their product to their service to their employees to their suppliers, and pass that quality on to their customers. Brand, reputation, and happy customers keep a business alive and growing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeplessnashadow
One excellent example is thread: HK G3 PTR91 Evaluation Advice Requested in which the evolution of the HK G-3 has taken two very distinct pathways here in the US.
Century International Arms imported a number of CETME G-3 parts and built receivers and put a shoddy product on the market. The quality and reliability is just a crap shoot -- 50/50 that you will be a happy customer. One disgruntled Century CETME customer said: "I have decided to destroy the company. It's not a decision which I have made lightly, nor do I believe it will be easy. I may not succeed, but I will try, and at the very least I will do them major damage. I do this not simply because they sold me a defective weapon. I do this not because they made me mad, which they have. No, I do this because I feel that it is my duty.....I don't think I'm the only one. How many others are out there? How many people have lost money on the junk this company sells? How many of them will join me in protecting our fellow consumers from this company?" This angry customer costs Century a lot.
On the other hand, it's a pleasure to read the comments by customers of PTR -- great advocates and they do not hesitate to say so. PTR makes the civilian version of the famed HK G-3 and has dedicated engineers and gunsmiths putting out a quality product that customers want and cherish -- few sell them used. What difference does it make? Just price a Century CETME versus a PTR 91 (they are virtually the same gun). PTR commands twice the price on the open market. The dollar speaks!
The research I have done on all the commercial carbine manufacturers has provided me with a real education that has gone far beyond carbines. This includes having bought a number of carbines each one made to evaluate what they did and how they did it. I do it because I enjoy it. I share it because it gives the research far more value beyond money. Not looking for a pat on the back or butt, this is a lead-in to the point for writing this.
As some of you are aware, I was a police officer in the Los Angeles area and retired as a sergeant. Long time ago. The experiences during those years and the skill set they provided me with was a major plus. Best thing I ever did was get that job. Next best thing I ever did was get out of that job, tho I loved it.
Since that retirement I have been doing investigations of one sort or another and almost all related to businesses and the people who run them. To include a license as a private investigator. I am not for hire. Don't have the time or interest. I do part time paid work for two companies only and even then limit it. 90% of what I do is related to patent and trademark infringement, who is doing it and where. One of those two companies is Pelican Products, the folks that make the flashlights and cases. I don't do suit and tie and I don't do court and both companies know it. Now, imagine what that skill set can do to further carbine history. I do.
During the years I've done what I do I've seen the extremes and between, investigated how they operate and looked for their m.o.'s. Their strengths and weaknesses. Vulnerabilities that can be legally be exploited should the company fail to cease and desist and the legal system fail to work due to technicalities.
Me personally, I found I get far more cooperation and assistance by doing things with a professional constructive mindset as opposed to a destructive mindset. It's also a whole lot healthier for me. The companies and people that run them simply are what they are. They have their m.o. and while some will change a little bit few will change their core m.o. as it is based on their personal integrity, belief systems and their corporate mentality. Those who approach businesses from a negative mindset generally do so because they take it personally. I'll avoid going on about what they fail to experience and learn.
What you are seeing here with my posts is what Inland Manufacturing does. The web page I'm working on will be the same. I work hard at making sure it's clear my work is focused on history, in this case as it's being made. I am not a defense attorney, prosecutor, social worker or judge. I am the cat who tactically pursues the mice. Unlike a cop or cat, I don't have to kill or harm any of them. All I do is present them as they are to a power greater than myself. In the case of carbines, that's all of you. I let you be the judge based on what the mice do. Inland will either earn their way or destroy themselves. I do hope they succeed but that's their job, not mine.
Since I'm a messenger and messengers often get shot I've found the professional, constructive, positive, unbiased, encouraging approach that's also healthy tends to protect me. But.
I've seen this particular m.o. before with commercial carbine manufacturers. If it goes the way it has gone in the past the outcome is predictable. I don't assume.
Rarely do I share my last name. It's nowhere on my websites. I'm not hiding, just think who I am is not as important as what I do. Thanks for the encouragement but what motivates more than anything else is the thrill of the hunt. I'm simply the cat and do what cats do.
As great as discussion forums are for the many reasons they are, the negativity from anger and venting can detract from the value of the positives that are also present. Sometimes to the point they negate the value of what's posted. So can posts unrelated to the thread, like this one.
My point: the more the focus here is on presenting the facts in a constructive and professional manner the more clear the m.o. will become. Inland will do what Inland does. Sharing first hand experience and photos gives the discussion forum it's true value. The more who will join in the more value it will have and a positive professional discussion doesn't turn them away. Imagine the difference if we had to do this via U.S. Mail.
Yeah, I'm OCD and this post shows it. But there is another point here. Having to do with contributing whatever we can. The websites I have would not be possible without the support and cooperation I've received. I do what I do but can't do it without you so they're not really my websites. Positive cooperation sharing a mutual interest put them there.
Jim
P.S. USCarbineCal30.com has the potential to set an internet wide standard for showing the history of a particular firearm. Without lessening the value of books. It won't happen all at once and it won't be nearly as valuable as it could be without the positive cooperation and contributions of everyone. It will include M1CarbinesInc.com and BavarianM1Carbines.com.
Inland is simply one of the smaller views along the way. The money I spent was simply an investment in documenting history.
You rate a sincere "Attaboy" from this corner... I'm also a retired cop (with a similar looking into things skillset - but on retiring I went back to fishing for a living... and haven't carried a sidearm in twenty years now ). Nothing like a single individual with the time and skill to look into something stinky... Most won't.
I agree 100%. I had a Century CETME It was GARBAGE. I now have a PTR91 (I had to have something to use my pre-2000 G3 mags in). It is a finely crafted weapon. They use hammer forged, match grade barrels, IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaspriter
They are now marketing the pistol version at $1200.
Inland Manufacturing M1 Advisor .30 Caliber Pistol Update
Every bit as Fun and "Reliable" as....................................
Add the wire portion and you have an illegal SBR para model!