No4's Dropped to the French Resistance

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Colin,
That book amongst many are a good read on the subject matter, and prove as many have, the research figures reported fairly accurately on weapons delivered in containers.
Interestingly enough and directly answering the original query on the post "lest we forget it" most speak of NO 4's being dropped towards the latter part of the war when DDay and the Rhine Crossing were in the planning stages 44 onwards.
It would have been great to see if they were indeed 4T's as opposed to normal rifles as everything I have ever been told by those that operated there points to using weapons as a last resort, to lessen compromise or capture, and if used at all, from as far away as possible.

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The No4 deliveries timeline makes perfect sense Gil, when you consider the fact that all 1942 and 43 production was required to re-equip the main stream allied armies ( not just re-equip, but also supply the rapidly expanding armed forces of the UK and Canada), with annual production levels reaching a point in 1944 when ancillary deliveries such as resistance cells in Europe could also be catered for.

It's interesting to note that at least some bayonets were also supplied.

Absolutely, agree with that one. I read somewhere, but can't find it when you need it, that after Dunkirk and the failings of the Expeditionary Force's return, and the mass dumpings that went on, they were light hundreds of thousands of rifles/Brens and of course all manner of vehicles.
Now that must have been a real headache for the procurement bods, but saved in the knoweldge that so many English companies were making the same product to a set standard, with not all eggs in one basket so to speak!!

Here's a photo taken in France of Maquis weapons that shows a spike bayonet fitted.

The Milice liked those Brens and No4s too!

That's a small arms display. Who knows what the actual poop is there.

Milice Brens previously mentioned here:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22631

As a matter of interest, did the Milice get their revengeful (and deserved) come-uppance from the populace when the war ended

It is suggested in Graham Priest's book that the Milice were "evacuated"/sent to the Eastern Front, never to be seen again, shortly before the allies got to them and so they may not have got their come-uppance.

Whats the story with the small arms display? Reason I ask is that the photo has to have been taken much later than WW2, possibly 1950s or 60s as the 1919A4 has the Israeli A6 Conversion kit on it. Not what you would find in WW2 France!

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

the 1919A4 has the Israeli A6 Conversion kit on it. Not what you would find in WW2 France

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Once again a picture with a caption, which shouldn't be taken as gospel.

As for the display of Maquis/FFI arms on and around the table above, this is the site it comes from: http://67400.free.fr/monsiteweb/resi...quis%20ORA.htm

Not knowing the exact provenance of this photo, we cannot say for certain that this display was not assembled postwar, or that the No.4 with the spike bayonet was one supplied to the Maquis, or that some enterprising soul did not get hold of a bayonet that had been issued to a British soldier and stick it on the rifle.... From the appearance of the photo, the other arms featured and the accompanying text, that seems highly unlikely to me.

If the records of the container drops are now publicly available it should be possible to find out if spike bayonets are recorded as having been dropped. Logically one might ask, “why not?” They were part of the CES, if that was the correct term, they wouldn’t take up too much space or weight in the container, and the Maquis might well have found them useful for herding prisoners or applying force silently; something guerrilla forces sometimes need to do. Not bad for making toast and opening cans of condensed milk either. The policy in that regard may have changed over time according to the feedback from the instructors sometimes dropped with the weapons or from the Maquis themselves. The policies may even have been different between the different organizations that prepared the drops?

Just my opinion of course. To each his own interpretation.