Starting a STEN Mk V SBR in the US

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

Peter is an Armourer so unless he has turned into a xxx since leaving the Army, he wont quaff his ale, he will 'Down' his pint to the chant 10, 9, 8.....3, 2, 1 on yer 'ead!

But then again he did take a commission so it may be a glass of port, and then some burning of the mess piano or other such antics that would get the rest of us mere mortals 14 days in the glass house!

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For a minute there you had me doubting my understanding of the English language. To whit:

quaff kwäf verb: quaff; 3rd person present: quaffs; past tense: quaffed; past participle: quaffed; gerund or present participle: quaffing

1. drink (something, especially an alcoholic drink) heartily.
synonyms: drink, swallow, gulp (down), guzzle, slurp, down, empty;

Now I have never met Peter, but judging his profession, and having quaffed quite a few beers with British Officers in a lively bar while singing all manners of courageous tunes (out of tune), I was assuming I was characterizing his manner of drinking accurately. Or did I miss the boat here?:dunno:

The welding is complete. A friend of mine referred me to a local welder who did an absolutely fantastic job. The welds on the tabs that connect the trigger housing to the tube look remarkably like the original spot welds done by ROT in 44. They have a slight recess and were done with the utmost of patience. He used a TIG welder and extremely thin wire, I think it was 1/32". He began with a tack, and then filled patiently until the level of the metal was just below the surface of the tab. For the welds on the trunnion and rear attachment ring, those were filled to slightly above the level of the tube. Very little filing was required. Here's the goods:

"J" at work:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lded5JPG-1.jpg

Tabs welded to tube


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lded7JPG-1.jpg

On display in the bunker


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ded2bJPG-1.jpg

More detail, but need to finish cleaning up these welds

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ded2aJPG-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ded4aJPG-1.jpg

http://castraponere.com/bloodontheta...N/Welded4b.JPG

Coming along really well!

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

Coming along really well!

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Thanks!

Am I seeing picture distortion or do you have the cocking handle square to the trigger mechanism housing? All of ours had the cocking handle and cocking handle slot at an angle of, say roughly 20 degrees or so from the horizontal so that you could just cant the gun over to the left a tad and cock the gun with the left hand

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Am I seeing picture distortion or do you have the cocking handle square to the trigger mechanism housing? All of ours had the cocking handle and cocking handle slot at an angle of, say roughly 20 degrees or so from the horizontal so that you could just cant the gun over to the left a tad and cock the gun with the left hand

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Peter,
You are correct. The cocking handle is set at 90 degrees to the trigger mechanism. I suspect that is the result of the design of the hammer in the block. It is placed at the 6 o'clock position and it's operating rod and spring are near the bottom of the block, also at the 6 o'clock position. The operating rod for the block, and its longer spring are at the 12 o'clock position on the block. I suspect any attempt to drill a recess for the charging handle in the block in other than the 3 o'clock position would cause interference with the cavity of the block's operating rod.

In order to provide a proper position for the hammer, it must be placed in the 6 position so that it can interact with the trigger/sear/interrupter system. That leaves only the 12 position for the op rod, as placement any where else than 180 out from the hammer would create lateral forces within the tube. 180 out between the two rods and springs places the resultant force in the center of the block along the longitudinal axis allowing the block to move fore and aft without torquing left or right as it moves. These lateral forces would inhibit proper functioning of the block in its forward/ rear movement. Please check the physics on that.

It would be more accurate to design the slot for the charging handle as you noted, but I do not see how it would be possible. This highlights the one deficiency of this design: the dual stiff springs and the location of the charging handle make it extremely difficult to cock with the left hand. That makes this an ineffective combat weapon (in it's IO semi auto config). It does, however, remain in my opinion, a near faithful representation of the original STEN Mk V while keeping the ATF laws in mind.

In addition, ATF doesn't like the cocking handle slot in the original position. Just another redesign feature to keep an original bolt from being inserted. This is the same reason why the ID of the main casing is smaller.
There are semi auto Sten designs in the US which use reworked original bolts, modified for closed bolt operation. Sometimes diameter is reduced, sometimes a "denial bar" is welded into the main casing, with a corresponding groove machined into the bolt, to keep an unaltered original from being easily substituted.
ATF will not accept an open bolt design. Viewed as simply too easy to convert to auto.

I do not recall ever seeing a Mk. V parts kit for sale in Canada. Lots of Mk. II parts, though. Mk. V was never really a standard Cdn issue; have seen only one photo taken in Canada in which the front end of a V barrel can be seen. The Mk. II parts are from Stens demilled when the Sten became obsolete here. I know of one chap who reworked II parts to create a V type.

Thanks fort that useful info 17th and Tiriaq. I know a person here who partially stripped a deac/dewat Mk2 to make an equally deac/dewat Mk5 and I have to confess, made a superb job of it.

But didn't it bring on the pains.................? His local Police took it upon themselves to intrerpret this as trying to reconfigure it back to something shootable. Anyway, a simple school lesson type very simple explanation over a cup of tea, explaining that NOTHING of the dewat/deact work had been tampered with or otherwise messed with, followed by an hour on the range with the real McCoy convinced them. Naturally, a week later, their boss and the head of the firearms licensing office had to be convinced as well followed by a jolly on the range with a Sten, Uzi (or was it a MAC?) and a Sterling..................

Looks like you are getting close to test firing.

Vincent,

Yes...getting close from a construction stand point, but a long way off waiting for the ATF forms.

On another note...found this cool British pamphlet detailing the operation of the MK I and II.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._0366JPG-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Thanks fort that useful info 17th and Tiriaq. I know a person here who partially stripped a deac/dewat Mk2 to make an equally deac/dewat Mk5 and I have to confess, made a superb job of it.

But didn't it bring on the pains.................? His local Police took it upon themselves to intrerpret this as trying to reconfigure it back to something shootable. Anyway, a simple school lesson type very simple explanation over a cup of tea, explaining that NOTHING of the dewat/deact work had been tampered with or otherwise messed with, followed by an hour on the range with the real McCoy convinced them. Naturally, a week later, their boss and the head of the firearms licensing office had to be convinced as well followed by a jolly on the range with a Sten, Uzi (or was it a MAC?) and a Sterling..................

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I sometimes wonder when they'll come a knockin' at my place. It's a struggle between posting what is fully legal and worrying about mis-interpretation.