and is (arguably) un-ethical when reliably expanding hunting ammuntion and bullets are readily available.
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and is (arguably) un-ethical when reliably expanding hunting ammuntion and bullets are readily available.
Here's a couple pics of some shooting I did today. I got both rifles from the North Store. Sunny and nice day-little wind. A six shot group using HXP, four shots LC-68 NM, shot with my SA field grade 5.8, with a new stock set. Barrel is 1.0 mw, te is 2. The group with about ten shots is from my new CMP Special. The first time I've shot it, it needs more grease, 50 or so settling in shots, and it has a spongy trigger. But, I think it certainly has possibilities. I also found that the HXP groups better than NM, at least in the 5.8. Pictures by Charlie59_photos - PhotobucketQuote:
Originally Posted by loki993
If you are going to get a Garand then understand it was a combat arm, not a dragster. It is capable of shooting a long, long way but understand it will never be a long range tack driver. Not even in national match dress. They do not stay in tune very long when in NM dress either. They were government property and spec to fire the existing stock of M2 ball ammo and that ammo production was continued in support of the Garand. Patrick is spot on, there is no place in Hot Roding a Garand. If you can’t get M2 mil spec ammo for the old girl then you have to hand load within the spec of issue ammo, or purchase civilian ammo listed as safe for the Garand by the company.
There are no heavy duty parts for Garands other than a bull barrel and they are for stability and accuracy . The adjustable gas valves and vents where made for tuning the harmonics and action speed and timing for accuracy, not for venting excessive pressure as many people do now. Clint ( Fowler ) came up with this many years ago and I use to talk with him about his concept.
If you want a Garand then use it within its operational envelope. If you want a long range hot rod tack driver then you should buy a M40 or equivalent.
:thup:
The adjustable gas SCREW and vents where made for tuning the harmonics and action speed and timing for accuracy
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if you think maybe two or three clicks of "usable" adjustment between a round that does NOT EJECT and a round that has TOO MUCH EJECTION is an accuracy "tuner," I have some prime bottom land you may be interested in on my uncle's farm. Likewise, the McCann hex screw system has FIVE screws which I supect TWO woujld work with any particular load. That ain't a "tuner." Adjustable gas screw systems are NOT like a barrel harmonic tuner. It's just a device that was made to give M1's the ability to control gas pressure when using slower powders than usually encountered.
ALSO, although it is perfectly safe to fire bullets up to 220 grains in an M1, the problem is that to get these heavier bullets up to "normal" speeds, again, you would need slower powders, thus the adjustment screw can bleed off the gas later in the firing cycle to get a normal feed/eject cycle with the gas system of the M1.
I have a Schuster system on my match prepped .308 Garand and I don't touch the current setting unless I switch to some South Afican 7.62 which is pretty whimpy and I have to tighten a click or two. Were I to load up some 175 SMKs with some Varget, I suspect I would need to turn it out ONE click, tops TWO. Again, this is to get NORMAL ejection.
To the extent that some SAFE heavier loads involve heavier bullets and or slower powders, YES, the adjustable screw systems do allow a bit of "hot rodding" for want of a better term.
And, yes, I used to live right down the road from Clint Fowler, go to gunshows with the guy, he worked on my rifles, etc. and his system ain't a tuner neither.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000402_1-1.jpg
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Your definition of tuning must be different than mine. When I adjust or regulate a gas system to change or control ejection, timing, op rod and bolt speed, that is tuning. Changing cycle speed and timing has a direct effect on barrel harmonics and barrel whip thus effecting accuracy. We will just have to disagree on concepts. My statement stands, there is no place for Hot Roding a Garand. And yes by current NM Garand has one of Clint’s gas plugs in it, it reduced the group size by better than an inch.
if tuning means a two or three (max) clicks tuning range between (A) a load that violently racks the operating rod back risking damage to the op-rod lugs and/or cracking the receiver heel; and (B) a load that only partially moves the bolt back and does not eject the next round, then it's a "tuner."
If Clint's choice of five screws insert system (i.e. the one McCann seems to have copied) reduced your group size by one inch (assuming 100 yards), it;s either just RANDOM chance or you likely STARTED at a point where your particular load's gas signature was causing problems. In other words, assuming the load was "safe/normal" in ANY Garand, it should shoot abuot the SAME in ANY particular Garand whether it has the screw in it or not.
Likewise, a Clint Fowler rifle (especially with heavy commercial barrel) should basically shoot ABOUT 1-MOA with quality handloaded match ammo, thus your pre-system load either was about 2MOA (fairly miserable) or your post-system load now should shoot about ZERO-MOA? Not much sense either way. But cheers nonetheless.
You may want to reacquaint yourself on what you are talking about. Clint’s gas plug system is a two Allen set screw system. There are no vents to change on the system I purchased from him. It changes the volume of the gas chamber. Issue ammo groups reduced. I don’t shoot one of Clint’s rifles. I shoot a match grade rifle I built for myself after building a few for customers. Likewise I do not have problems with my hand load match ammo. Adios
The Garand Rifle is not a delicate Prima Dona. It was made to last, perform and function under the worst of conditions, with minimal maintaince. It was produced with robust, over engineered parts that did not fail due to bean counters making something as cheaply as possible, as you might find currently in production, with ceramic mould cast parts, made by a CNC machine by the thousands for ten cents a dozen.